Joe Biden, the RAVE act, dubstepforum, and you

[emu]

by all means be critical, but expect a thorough ass beating if mccain gets elected as we'll elect you lot the scapegoat

this.

haha...

despite my passion for electronic music i could give a fuck about the rave act or what it has done, the reality is, is that the party/rave scene IS BAD AND COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to peoples lives, i do NOT regret being a part of it. but really, theres a lot better things in life to be than a clubber/raver/promoter/drug dealer/dancer/glowstick vendor/etc...these things while fun and creative and all that, are not really the right way to go, ive seen some fucked up shit at parties and over 90 percent of the people at massives and raves and underground parties are waste and at times i feel embarrassed to be a part of it. but the small percentage of people involved that changed my life and still are a part of my life today make me proud and make it worth it. there are so much more important things than parties, like people staying out of self destructive drugs and party habits and getting into college, and public service and BECOMGING something...a positive force for humanity and joe biden realizes this. and if theres anything i have learned is that MUSIC WILL FIND A WAY no matter WHAT LAWS or ACTS are passed. jazz and dancing was made illegal in new york city for a while and shit did that stop ANYTHING or ANYONE from making or appreciating music???? NO. so shut the F up and stop beating a dead horse O'BIDEN 08 or fucking die. lol

[djshiva]

by all means be critical, but expect a thorough ass beating if mccain gets elected as we'll elect you lot the scapegoat

this.

haha...

despite my passion for electronic music i could give a fuck about the rave act or what it has done, there are so much more important things than that, and if theres anything i have learned is that MUSIC WILL FIND A WAY no matter WHAT LAWS or ACTS are passed. jazz and dancing was made illegal in new york city for a while and shit did that stop ANYTHING or ANYONE from making or appreciating music???? NO. so shut the F up and stop beating a dead horse O'BIDEN 08 or fucking die. lol

i think you are missing the point.

[dj cal cutta]

I don't understand how someone can skip over the basic tenants of my first post only to read stupid reactionary bullshit posts in this thread and then get right in line with them...

edit: Am I too cynical to think that it's because people only want to read the shortest posts on forums and can't pay enough attention to actually grasp concepts? Are people really that stupid and sheepish?

[bellybelle]

by all means be critical, but expect a thorough ass beating if mccain gets elected as we'll elect you lot the scapegoat

this.

haha...

despite my passion for electronic music i could give a fuck about the rave act or what it has done, there are so much more important things than that, and if theres anything i have learned is that MUSIC WILL FIND A WAY no matter WHAT LAWS or ACTS are passed. jazz and dancing was made illegal in new york city for a while and shit did that stop ANYTHING or ANYONE from making or appreciating music???? NO. so shut the F up and stop beating a dead horse O'BIDEN 08 or fucking die. lol

Can anyone who keeps responding this way tell me how it is that criticism of one candidate is an affirmation of another?

Please. Explain this to me. Because I think I'm missing something and I'm trying to be as clear as possible with my words.

[emu]

Can anyone who keeps responding this way tell me how it is that criticism of one candidate is an affirmation of another?

Please. Explain this to me. Because I think I'm missing something and I'm trying to be as clear as possible with my words.

i never thought that you were affirming anything. i just think its dumb to be hypercritical and nitpicking like this of course no candidate is perfect.

[dj cal cutta]

Hypercritical and nitpicking???!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!

Did you even read my first post? I'm dead serious...as I mentioned, the RAVE act *directly* affects all Americans on this board. That is *not* nitpicking!!! That is me voicing a concern as a CITIZEN WITH FREE SPEECH, STUPID!

edit: How in the fuck did this thread become a breakdown of basic logic by people who refuse to read? So fucking frustrating...

[bellybelle]

Can anyone who keeps responding this way tell me how it is that criticism of one candidate is an affirmation of another?

Please. Explain this to me. Because I think I'm missing something and I'm trying to be as clear as possible with my words.

i never thought that you were affirming anything. i just think its dumb to be hypercritical and nitpicking like this of course no candidate is perfect.

Not being "hypercritical and nitpicking" gets things like the RealID act and various extensions of the Patriot Act as well as the upcoming Orphan Works act voted in under the radar.

Then we want to do something and say, "What the hell happened?" What happened? We were sleeping as a Nation because it didn't affect us on a personal level, or didn't seem to be important at the time; and when it does, its too late.

Can we try something new? Not the neglect until we're paying at the pump and with classmates and actually be a bit more proactive in our approach? There's nothing wrong with tending to your home. And if you honestly love this country, and I mean love it and never want to be anywhere else....when you hang your hat, the US is your home... it is your civic duty to care for and educate yourself of issues that affect it. I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, I think its rather endearing.

[emu]

yes i read your first post. it says:

This is an open thread to all ninjas, all over the world.
(this includes me)

it also says:

So the point of this thread is this...how averse are you to Joe Biden as VP?

so i will answer:
im not. one bit. i actually wanted him as the presidential nominee before obama. there. thats as on topic as you can get sorry if i strayed. im not stupid. anyone that knows me can tell you that.

however: this thread is STILL pointless. you blatantly patronize all of us as uninformed idiots by even bringing it up. anyone that doesnt know the inherent risks of our political system and their candidates SHOULDNT VOTE and of COURSE they should be well informed of their past political actions and affiliations and intentions. i never thought otherwise.

the rave act has not affected me at all, and if its done what it was intended to do which is keep kids away from a drug infested party lifestyle, awesome. if its shut down a couple parties and gotten some promoters in trouble along the way that sucks, but honestly the rave act has never affected me. if you do things right, it wont.

[parson]

Much of our modern thought is characterized by pretenses and evasions, by appeals to ultimate authorities which are non- liberal, superstitious and reactionary. Often we are not aware of these thought processes. We accept ideas, authorities, catch- phrases and conditions without troubling to think or investigate and yet these things may conceal terrible traps. We accept them as right because they have a surface-level agreement with the things in which we believe. We welcome the man who is for liberalism, against communism, without troubling to inquire what else he is for or against. In our blindness we leave ourselves open to exploitation, regimentation and war.
Jack Parsons

[dj cal cutta]

however: this thread is STILL pointless. you blatantly patronize all of us as uninformed idiots by even bringing it up. anyone that doesnt know the inherent risks of our political system and their candidates SHOULDNT VOTE and of COURSE they should be well informed of their past political actions and affiliations and intentions. i never thought otherwise.

the rave act has not affected me at all, and if its done what it was intended to do which is keep kids away from a drug infested party lifestyle, awesome. if its shut down a couple parties and gotten some promoters in trouble along the way that sucks, but honestly the rave act has never affected me. if you do things right, it wont.

Your very first post in this thread was in agreement to an assumption that anybody who could want to scrutinize Joe Biden's legislation choices are instantly voting for McCain and are somehow going to "sabotage", where, AGAIN, had you actually thought out my first post for a fucking second, would have seen that the last thing I said is that I'm voting Obama(I also noticed you conveniently *didn't* quote that bit in your last post...). That was fucking stupid, any way you cut it. I made the groundwork for discussion on this thread clear in my first post, I didn't say "fuck Joe Biden for the RAVE act, and fuck Obama's campaign", and I'm frankly insulted by your insinuations(your agreeing with Hera's post in the first place counts as such insinuation in my eyes).

And to claim that I'm somehow "belittling" people on this board for even bringing this up is pathetic. Again, if you care to read this thread, you'll see that there were folks who at the very least imply that they were unaware of the RAVE act before this thread. Also, this is a fucking message board, a place of discussion. I made this thread clear that this is a discussion, not a lecture. Your insinuation of that is also insulting.

If the RAVE act didn't affect you at all, great! That was the kind of reply I was looking for in this thread, thank you very much...

[bellybelle]

however: this thread is STILL pointless. you blatantly patronize all of us as uninformed idiots by even bringing it up. anyone that doesnt know the inherent risks of our political system and their candidates SHOULDNT VOTE and of COURSE they should be well informed of their past political actions and affiliations and intentions. i never thought otherwise.

respectfully, i have to disagree. i don't see it as pointless to question our choices in leadership. i don't think its patronizing at all to want to discuss the former voting history and former policy stances of those we hope to turn to in our moments of crisis.

frankly, i think its equally alarming the amount of blind patriotism that is expected of people who wish to support Obama or, at least, not support McCain. We always hear that history repeats itself. In this position, history didn't even take long to complete the circuit. In the last 10 years alone, we have watched an administration slyly and subtly, and sometimes quite obviously, manipulate and twist with the aid of propaganda and rhetoric. We supported the War in Iraq because of the twist of 9/11 (and the RNC invoked this date plenty of times for all of us to realize just how effective that actually was). We barely blinked when the Patriot Act was voted in because we were terrified of another attack. We are "balls deep" in a war that we were manipulated into supporting.

The reason people are so vehemently supporting Obama is a direct result of the coarse manipulation of the current regime. So, for me, it is very alarming that instead of learning some of the lessons, such as questioning the politicians who represent you and being fully aware of the issues, bills, and acts up before Congress; democrats have instead just switched a pony on the same carousel. When people questioned Bush as a leader, they were scolded or shamed for daring to question him. That behavior bit us in the ass more than once in the last ten years. Why are so many Obama supporters then running into the same trap?

It would be easy if we could simply reduce things to Obama = Good and McCain = Bad but its just not that simple. And in discussing issues that pertain to our chosen candidates, we are being well informed and breaking the cycle.

This makes me question just how much change the American populace wants. Change isn't implemented by getting off the white horse and onto the pink horse if you're still on the ride. There are many avenues we can take as citizens to guarantee that we don't go through another 8 years of bullshit. But not scrutinizing our candidates is just more of the same.

I want real change. Not just the appearance of it.

[emu]

however: this thread is STILL pointless. you blatantly patronize all of us as uninformed idiots by even bringing it up. anyone that doesnt know the inherent risks of our political system and their candidates SHOULDNT VOTE and of COURSE they should be well informed of their past political actions and affiliations and intentions. i never thought otherwise.

the rave act has not affected me at all, and if its done what it was intended to do which is keep kids away from a drug infested party lifestyle, awesome. if its shut down a couple parties and gotten some promoters in trouble along the way that sucks, but honestly the rave act has never affected me. if you do things right, it wont.

Your very first post in this thread was in agreement to an assumption that anybody who could want to scrutinize Joe Biden's legislation choices are instantly voting for McCain and are somehow going to "sabotage", where, AGAIN, had you actually thought out my first post for a fucking second, would have seen that the last thing I said is that I'm voting Obama(I also noticed you conveniently *didn't* quote that bit in your last post...). That was fucking stupid, any way you cut it. I made the groundwork for discussion on this thread clear in my first post, I didn't say "fuck Joe Biden for the RAVE act, and fuck Obama's campaign", and I'm frankly insulted by your insinuations(your agreeing with Hera's post in the first place counts as such insinuation in my eyes).

And to claim that I'm somehow "belittling" people on this board for even bringing this up is pathetic. Again, if you care to read this thread, you'll see that there were folks who at the very least imply that they were unaware of the RAVE act before this thread. Also, this is a fucking message board, a place of discussion. I made this thread clear that this is a discussion, not a lecture. Your insinuation of that is also insulting.

If the RAVE act didn't affect you at all, great! That was the kind of reply I was looking for in this thread, thank you very much...

to clear up your claims and assumptions:
1. i DID see that you are voting obama awesome thanks lets not divide us further. quoting that wouldnt have helped any of my points. thats why i didnt. its not because of "stupidity"
2. i only quoted heras post because i thought it was funny, and didnt mean to place potential 'blame' on anyone if mccains elected. again you have me pegged incorrectly, although i can see where there would be misunderstanding.
3. i did think out your post for more than a 'fucking second' ive taken quite a bit of time thinking it out. i still am. right now. CHILL.
4. true this is a discussion board and open discussion is what its all about and i guess there really is no 'pointless' thread, i just would think and hope that we are all as well informed but you are right thats not the case unfortunately people dont know these things and i apologize if you feel insulted- carry on and discuss away. i guess im too stupid to have an opinion lol

[emu]

I want real change. Not just the appearance of it.

so do i but we're not going to get it as long as the media only covers 2 parties and the system makes it too difficult for anyone with a different party affiliation to get anywhere. (the only 3rd party ever invited to a fall debate was ross perot) so until that changes or unless you have a way to counter that...deal with the best you can get.

[bellybelle]

I want real change. Not just the appearance of it.

so do i but we're not going to get it as long as the media only covers 2 parties and the system makes it too difficult for anyone with a different party affiliation to get anywhere. (the only 3rd party ever invited to a fall debate was ross perot) so until that changes or unless you have a way to counter that...deal with the best you can get.

hehehe but see, i am dealing. thats why i'm asking questions. when i was in NYC, it was a lot easier for me to not have to worry about it. If there was a Dem up for office, there was no question about what made sense. It was accepted that the obvious choice was the Democratic Party.

If Bill Clinton were up for office in this election, I'd still vote for him. I didn't agree with our involvement in Sarajevo. I didn't agree with our delay when it came to Rwanda and the Sudan. I didn't necessarily agree with our dubious relationship with China. Does that mean I wouldn't support him? No. I loved him as a president. As I said, I'd vote for him again. But it doesn't mean I'm not open to criticism of him as a president.

Same with Obama/Biden. To question someone doesn't mean you don't approve or that you don't support. To question means just that--how does your history effect your decisions now. Will Biden's position with the RAVE act influence Obama as president? What would it mean to us if he were? How would we respond if our livelihoods were curtailed by gross misinterpretation of these environments? What if your livelihood and your profession were to be sacrificed for the greater good of the nation?

Those are pretty important questions to review, especially since you will be personally accountable for the decision you make. Even if you support a candidate, it doesn't put them above rebuke or chastisement. Look at the everyday Republican right now....having to eat crow for a decision they either made with full knowledge or with bread and circuses. I'm betting more than a few of them are wishing they held Bush responsible a lot earlier than the 2008 election. I'd like to avoid that as much as possible.

[setspeed]

i think you get this sort of negative voting when people perceive the politicians in power to just be all about politicking, populism and so on.

eventually you can get to the point where the electorate honestly believes that the politicians will say or do or endorse anything that will get them into power, regardless how that might relate to whatever they'll do if they actually DO get into office. so a general election basically becomes a vote of confidence in the current government. we've had this in the uk for about 10 or 15 years, i'd say (tho obviously it's a bit of a diff system; more simple in some ways)

[alexchuck]

biden fightin' palin in a couple of minutes on tv!

[hera]

i was just fucking around, im not going to kick anyone's ass <3

i think what some of us are trying to say is, we're just as concerned as anyone about the degree of change the next administration commits to, but we're willing to overlook things like biden's association witht he rave act because, well, fucking because! look at the other option!

[parson]

turd burger vs shit sandwich

i'm writin in kucinich

[flippo]

Your alternative VP will probably ban dubstep because it wasn't in the bible, and the people who listen to it are heretic witches.

If those two fucking clowns bring the republican party in I'm seriously considering opening my doors for American refugees.

shouldn't laugh though, because the thought of that woman being the second or possibly most powerful person in the world is fucking chilling.

don't know a great deal about the other two either.

[bellybelle]

it doesn't even matter anymore. everyone is right until inauguration day. then we all have to live with our decision. i'm readying myself for whatever that means. i just hope every other person who votes will be ready by then too.