Logic 8 and external MIDI questions

[mundayschild]

Hello, i'm new to this forum but have been reading the topics on this board for a while now.
Firstly, just wanted to say thanks to all of you for some informative and generally really bloody useful information about modern electronic music and it's creation in general.

Secondly, and apologies if there is a thread for this elsewhere. I have looked but nothing seems to answer all the issues i'm after, i have a convoluted question,
I have some old gear in my loft which hasn't been used for a few years, namely an old Akai sampler, a couple of sound modules, and a few small bits of outoard, as well as an old Allen and Heath 24 channel mixer and a few inexpensive mic's.
My question is, i have a dual core middle of the range Imac, i'm getting Logic 8 next week, and the Apogee duet, oh, and a cheap USB controller keyboard. I want to use the old dust ridden sound modules and outboard with the new Logic and the Apogee. Just to pre empt the question "why would i want to use modules and samplers when Logic comes packaged with samplers and synths" Ideally i'd like to use the midi gear to lay down sequences, along with the sampler for drum tracks etc, as i used to do all my drum stuff on it and hand edit the sounds in a two step garage style back in the day (i was using Cakewalk on a PC then....those were the days), I prefer this as it gives you more choice over your individual sound and 'feel' whatever that is. Or are the instruments that come with Logic good enough, i've never used a software sampler, are they easy to use, as in taking snippets from vinyl and loading in home made sounds?
Can i record midi into logic through the firewire interface and play back tracks at the same time, or am i going to be 'chained' to Logic's own internal sounds or have to get a USB MIDI interface as well?
Then i would like to add audio with mic's etc to the electronic stuff, the audio side of recording into Logic I understand fairly well as i have used that facility a few years ago. It's the midi side and being able to use my own boxes i'm confused about.
i appreciate there are a few questions in one there, sorry to be a pain in the ass if these issues have already been addressed!
any help you knowledgeable bods could give me would be very cool indeed.
cheers!

[John Locke]

first off, yes the bundled logic sampler and soft synths are very good, and u will probably end up using them.

second, you shouldnt have any problems using yr hardware at all, and i doubt you'll even need any extra gear to make it all work.

there's no real reason to use yr hardware tho...other than cos u r more comfortable with it, and perhaps cos u like the sound.

i use logic with a bunch of hardware bits n pieces, just cos the risk of doing everything inside logic is that u sound like everyone else who uses logic. so i like to mix it up with various junk...as far as i'm concerned anything goes and it all adds different flavours.

but logic and its built in synths etc are more than professional enough 2 allow u 2 produce everything "in the box"...if u want 2 move beyond that its a personal choice: u might find that the EXS24 is more than capable of doing everything you need, or if your sampler is old enough it might give you a crunchy 12bit sound you prefer.

mix and match.

if u find (after reading the manual) that u got more precise technical questions about hooking up external midi gear, then i would ask on http://www.logicprohelp.com/ , not here.

[prolife]

The Apogee Duet doesn't have Midi I don't think, though I may be wrong.

[John Locke]

The Apogee Duet doesn't have Midi I don't think, though I may be wrong.

no, u r completely right.

but if mundayschild has a "cheap midi controller" this will have midi in and outs in adition to usb, so i wouldve thought the hardware can be daisychained behind this. thats how i run midi stuff, hooked to an m-audio oxygen 8.

running the mixer with the duet is gonna prove more complicated tho as its only got L and R monitor outputs, nothing else.

and now i think of it, the audio of the hardware is gonna present some difficulties with the duet as well as its only got 2 audio ins. not been a problem for me cos i only ever use one or 2 bits of hardware at a time, and tend to just record into logic on an audio track when i got something i like. but if u want 2 have several bits of hardware all playing at once then things r gonna get a bit trickier.

i guess u would run the hardware into the mixer, and also logic into the mixer (via the duet) and then everyting out from there to the monitors 2gether. u can work this way until you're ready to mix down, at which point record everything onto separate udio tracks in logic. will take some fiddly messing around with changing cables everytime u need to record, but otherwise shud work fine.

[prolife]

The Apogee Duet doesn't have Midi I don't think, though I may be wrong.

no, u r completely right.

but if mundayschild has a "cheap midi controller" this will have midi in and outs in adition to usb, so i wouldve thought the hardware can be daisychained behind this. thats how i run midi stuff, hooked to an m-audio oxygen 8.

running the mixer with the duet is gonna prove more complicated tho as its only got L and R monitor outputs, nothing else.

and now i think of it, the audio of the hardware is gonna present some difficulties with the duet as well as its only got 2 audio ins. not been a problem for me cos i only ever use one or 2 bits of hardware at a time, and tend to just record into logic on an audio track when i got something i like. but if u want 2 have several bits of hardware all playing at once then things r gonna get a bit trickier.

i guess u would run the hardware into the mixer, and also logic into the mixer (via the duet) and then everyting out from there to the monitors 2gether. u can work this way until you're ready to mix down, at which point record everything onto separate udio tracks in logic. will take some fiddly messing around with changing cables everytime u need to record, but otherwise shud work fine.

Currently the type of rig I'm running with my Firebox and Mackie 1202. Swapping cables and stuff gets a bit tedious at times.

[mundayschild]

Thank you for all of the suggestions. I like the approach of recording one or two hardware items at a time straight into Logic, at least this keeps things simple, then any further editing can be done inside the software.
I was aware that the Apogee has no MIDI functionality, and as has been pointed out, my MIDI controller keyboard is M Audio as well so should do the job.

I reckon that i'll probably need a external hard drive next, as the number of audio tracks increase.
looks like I need to save a bit more, I'm skint!

[John Locke]

yeah, i wouldnt do any recording of audio 2 yr internal drive 2b honest, not supposed 2b very good for it. get an external straight off if u can, and put all the apple loops and other clutter on it as well when u install logic, or u'll find yr harddisk is approaching the limit b4 u even start

[kultur m]

i use logic with a bunch of hardware bits n pieces, just cos the risk of doing everything inside logic is that u sound like everyone else who uses logic.

I quote all but this. I recon is up on "what kind of musician/producer" you are: if you are experienced enough with filters/eqs (Logic Reverbs and Delays for ex. are excellent tools for all genre of electronic music) your works will come out as professional and unique as those produced with a complicate hardware setup.. (that's just in my opinion!! )

[John Locke]

i use logic with a bunch of hardware bits n pieces, just cos the risk of doing everything inside logic is that u sound like everyone else who uses logic.

I quote all but this. I recon is up on "what kind of musician/producer" you are: if you are experienced enough with filters/eqs (Logic Reverbs and Delays for ex. are excellent tools for all genre of electronic music) your works will come out as professional and unique as those produced with a complicate hardware setup.. (that's just in my opinion!! )

yeah, agreed, partly: if u just reach for the presets then no amount of hardware will save u from sounding like other ppl.

but i wasnt suggesting there's anything more professional about hardware at all, or that it will automatically make u more oringinal. just that certain sounds are NOT achievable using only logic's synths. i actually only got a couple 0f hardware synths, but what makes the difference for me is real instruments, preamps etc.

nothing wrong, or less professional, about doing everything in logic tho: like u said, its what u do with it that counts. in fact the majority of stuff i do IS all in logic, just from time to time its nice to reach 4 other sounds and colours.

[mundayschild]

Cheers, all useful points, and it's kinda pre empted the obvious.

Which hard drive to get, firewire probably, but what's the best make?.

probably looking at 500GB should be enough....

[John Locke]

firewire definitely, preferably 800. usb is slower, not ideal 4 recording audio.

500gb wld b more than enuf. but u might do better getting 1 smaller hd, like a 100gb, to use regularly for recording/saving onto, and then getting something bigger (250, 500, terra...?) as a back up drive. obvious, i know, but i cant stress enuf that backing up everything is essential

EDIT: most techy ppl i spoken to seem to think that harddrives r pretty much all the same, and all made in the same factories in china anway. only thing is, theres much less choice for firewire anyway, and if u go in a mac shop they only ever seem to have lacie. which is fine, but u r paying for design...

[mundayschild]

Sound.

Cheers Battle, i appreciate the tips, and you takin' time out to answer.

Everyone else, Cheers too!

Now do i go for the cheaper Western Digital 500GB firewire drive or the more pricey Formac one...

Ive been put off the Iomega Drives as i heard they come supplied with 2 pin plugs??

[Sharmaji]

wd drives are fine for audio.

get comfortable w/ the environment in Logic and you'll be smitten w/ what you can do-- people have written tons of environments to control nearly every synth out there. even if you don't want to control everything, just being able to import all the patch names from an outboard synth and control your program change info via midi is fantastic. for some older boxes, get an idea of what the MSB/LSB midi info is, and youll be able to really program them-- from within logic.

rawk!
D

[Sharmaji]

wd drives are fine for audio.

get comfortable w/ the environment in Logic and you'll be smitten w/ what you can do-- people have written tons of environments to control nearly every synth out there. even if you don't want to control everything, just being able to import all the patch names from an outboard synth and control your program change info via midi is fantastic. for some older boxes, get an idea of what the MSB/LSB midi info is, and youll be able to really program them-- from within logic.

rawk!
D

[mundayschild]

Cheers lads, thanks for the advice.

Ordered the WD 800 firewire HD, and an extra 2GB memory chip for the IMac, just to make sure there's enough capacity.

Incidentally if anyone wants cheap IMac/Mac memory, Crucial.com do a very reasonable deal on memory, my 2GB IMac compatible chip cost £18.00 plus postage.

Also the Apogee Duet is going for about £270.00 now, which aint cheap iknow but the sound of it blows the competition out the water, including interfaces twice the price, it may not hve all the bells and whistles on it but i'd rather my music sounded as good as it possibly could be at the start rather than having to work later on to improve it.
Just out of interest what parts of Logic should i keep on the external drive, am i looking at putting all the plugins and loops/samples that come bundled with Logic, or do i put the synths and stuff on there?

once again, cheers!