[Technique] How to make a kick stand out

[wub]

Just thought I'd share this tip as a different way of making a kick stand out in the mix. You might know it, you might not.

If you are reading this, you are probably familiar with general studio techniques (compression, etc.)

Obviously, a compression with enough attack time (if you wanna get technical, do it by the bpm [maybe a 32nd note's worth of attack?]) and release (the same... maybe quarter notes for release time) is common to help a kick stand out.

BUT

A technique that can be used is to duplicate the track, and pitch-shift up an octave; on the original track, pitch shift down an octave or a perfect fifth (often these are in half steps, btw, so octave= 13 steps, P5= 7 steps), and mix the wet/dry signal of the shifted kick with the original.

The up track will help bring out slaps, while the down track will bring out the sub-freqs.

As with everything, have a fiddle with the settings to find your own sweet spot

[james fox]

Obviously, a compression with enough attack time (if you wanna get technical, do it by the bpm [maybe a 32nd note's worth of attack?]) and release (the same... maybe quarter notes for release time) is common to help a kick stand out.

[wub]

Obviously, a compression with enough attack time (if you wanna get technical, do it by the bpm [maybe a 32nd note's worth of attack?]) and release (the same... maybe quarter notes for release time) is common to help a kick stand out.

That is a proper nerdy interpretation btw, and of course it varies greatly on the kick itself and the feel of the tune.

[james fox]

nerdy is good. i embrace my inner nerd, i don't shun him

[macc]

The nerdier (and better way) is to use your ears and stop trying to make music with numbers and formulae.

By and large I try to avoid getting my calculator out when I am writing music

EDIT: DAGH - I have done it AGAIN, coming across all snobby and stuck up. Fuck's sake!!! Sorry

[serox]

The nerdier (and better way) is to use your ears and stop trying to make music with numbers and formulae.

By and large I try to avoid getting my calculator out when I am writing music

EDIT: DAGH - I have done it AGAIN, coming across all snobby and stuck up. Fuck's sake!!! Sorry

The bit at the top doesn't make sense to me and I think I am happy about that

[wub]

The nerdier (and better way) is to use your ears and stop trying to make music with numbers and formulae.

By and large I try to avoid getting my calculator out when I am writing music

EDIT: DAGH - I have done it AGAIN, coming across all snobby and stuck up. Fuck's sake!!! Sorry

Nope, nothing being said of it Macc, fully agree with you


I know some guys that EQ their tracks by sight, which is just weird.

[macc]

^ it's rife mate. I'm going to try jamming paintbrushes in my ears and see how that works out

The nerdier (and better way) is to use your ears and stop trying to make music with numbers and formulae.

By and large I try to avoid getting my calculator out when I am writing music

EDIT: DAGH - I have done it AGAIN, coming across all snobby and stuck up. Fuck's sake!!! Sorry

The bit at the top doesn't make sense to me and I think I am happy about that

Which bit at the top? My bit at the top of my post, or the top bit of the top post at the top of the top post?

[wub]

^ it's rife mate. I'm going to try jamming paintbrushes in my ears and see how that works out

[drokkr]

The nerdier (and better way) is to use your ears and stop trying to make music with numbers and formulae.

By and large I try to avoid getting my calculator out when I am writing music

EDIT: DAGH - I have done it AGAIN, coming across all snobby and stuck up. Fuck's sake!!! Sorry

+1 for ears.
if something doesn't sound right and no amount of music theory or formula will fix that. trust your ears.

[serox]

Which bit at the top? My bit at the top of my post, or the top bit of the top post at the top of the top post?

Not your bit at the top but the bit at the top of the top of the thread at the top of the page.

[james fox]

it's all well and good trusting your ears, but you need to have a bit of theory as well to take things on to the next level, IMO of course.

9 times out of 10 getting a bit anal about it is the best way to get results that are pleasing to the ear - music is maths, after all...

[somejerk]

use your ears and stop trying to make music with numbers and formulae.

word.

[wub]

9 times out of 10 getting a bit anal about it is the best way to get results that are pleasing to the ear - music is maths, after all...

Digital music is maths


Analog music is.......um.........geography?

[manray]

music is maths, after all...

Hahahahah ahahah ahahha ahahah ahahahah ahah.

That's the extreme levels of dumbness right there. Sure you can use maths at some level to analyse and describe almost everything in the universe but that doesn't make math especially useful in creative areas such as music and art etc...

I'll stick to making music without the calculator.

[serox]

I know that back in the 90s people were making quality music without using maths.

If they can do it without the help of Einstein than why can't we?

[james fox]

music is maths, after all...

Hahahahah ahahah ahahha ahahah ahahahah ahah.

That's the extreme levels of dumbness right there. Sure you can use maths at some level to analyse and describe almost everything in the universe but that doesn't make math especially useful in creative areas such as music and art etc...

I'll stick to making music without the calculator.

edited.

musical scales and notes and frequencies are mathematical in nature. this is a fact. at no point did i say you should sit there working out basslines with a calculator, just that i reckon you need to have a bit of technical knowhow to back up your ears if you want to get ahead of the pack.

[manray]

musical scales and notes and frequencies are mathematical in nature. this is a fact. at no point did i say you should sit there working out basslines with a calculator, just that i reckon you need to have a bit of technical knowhow to back up your ears if you want to get ahead of the pack.

Yes but like almost everything the mathematics is secondary. In this case the music came first and the mathematics was then later used to understand the relationships, logic, patterns etc.. after.

Saying "music is maths" is just dumbness.

The ears come first my friend. You can learn all the maths you want but it will never tell you anything about music. Maybe you should stop getting confused between maths and music theory because they are two different things.

[macc]

I think Charlie Parker can sort this one out;

First you master your instrument, then you master the music, and then you forget about all that shit and just play.

It's a question of which stage you're at.

i reckon you need to have a bit of technical knowhow to back up your ears if you want to get ahead of the pack.

I agree * , and wouldn't laugh at the idea that 'music is maths'. It's true that a very great deal of it is just a natural consequence of naturally occuring intervals, relationships etc etc. There's no getting around that. Luckily, however, the human ear is already designed to interpret and 'derive results' from this mathematical structure without recourse to maths being necessary. The ear does it all for you, though it gets better with training.

When you're learning the trade or a new skill you're obliged to break it down, do it, repeat it etc etc. But you reach a certain level and you don't need it any more. And your music sounds INFINITELY better for it. First you learn the letters, the words and start to read sentences. Eventually you can hold a conversation about something without explicitly thinking what you're going to say. When you make music in that intermediate stage way it's like a child rea..ding.. the... sen... tence. It's all there, but... stilted.

This is the level one should aspire to in music, that it just comes out of you without calculation or contrivance. Capturing 'that feeling' - ie expression, ie MUSIC, is very rarely served by maths, even though it can describe it.


* I find 'getting ahead of the pack' objectionable, this is self expression, not a competition. 'Winning', IMHO, should only be measured in terms of personal satisfaction with the degree of accuracy of that expression. 'Did I say what I wanted to', 'did I express that feeling' etc.

[/Pseudo-philosophical musing]

[manray]

I think Charlie Parker can sort this one out;

First you master your instrument, then you master the music, and then you forget about all that shit and just play.

It's a question of which stage you're at.

i reckon you need to have a bit of technical knowhow to back up your ears if you want to get ahead of the pack.

I agree * , and wouldn't laugh at the idea that 'music is maths'. It's true that a very great deal of it is just a natural consequence of naturally occuring intervals, relationships etc etc. There's no getting around that. Luckily, however, the human ear is already designed to interpret and 'derive results' from this mathematical structure without recourse to maths being necessary. The ear does it all for you, though it gets better with training.

When you're learning the trade or a new skill you're obliged to break it down, do it, repeat it etc etc. But you reach a certain level and you don't need it any more. And your music sounds INFINITELY better for it. First you learn the letters, the words and start to read sentences. Eventually you can hold a conversation about something without explicitly thinking what you're going to say. When you make music in that intermediate stage way it's like a child rea..ding.. the... sen... tence. It's all there, but... stilted.

This is the level one should aspire to in music, that it just comes out of you without calculation or contrivance. Capturing 'that feeling' - ie expression, ie MUSIC, is very rarely served by maths, even though it can describe it.


* I find 'getting ahead of the pack' objectionable, this is self expression, not a competition. 'Winning', IMHO, should only be measured in terms of personal satisfaction with the degree of accuracy of that expression.

[/Pseudo-philosophical musing]

Well said. I'm well aware of the interplay between maths and the underlying nature of music but like you say, maths rarely serves you, rather it is used to understand WHY.