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[production bible 2] Random bass tips

hardware, software, tips and tricks
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Postby daft cunt » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:05 am

Plz add yours or others you've spotted on the forum.

miss_molinari wrote:basically i have been experimenting with cutting (not sidechaining) a notch (band reject) in the bass starting at 60hz and ending just before 70. this is only for those bass lines which only hit on the kick (quite specific). also the bass is then high passed at about 220hz to pretty much 0db which is where the kick starts (ending the kick with a non-too-aggressive-cut at about 2khz). this essentially means that the kick and the bass do not share any frequencies above abot 200hz but also between 60 and 70 and with them always hitting at the same time, this gets around the fact that sidechaining this type of sequencing would leave you with no or little bass...

this has worked well so far but is useful mainly for sub basses ending at around 250hz, would not be as good for full spectrum wubs...anyone else got any tech tips regarding the bass and kick?

futures_untold wrote:I simply cut everything under 90Hz on my kicks and roll off slightly at 1KHz.

Sub I cut under 40Hz and roll off at 200Hz

I always compress both seperately, and keep my levels low in the mix to create plenty of head room later whilst adding sounds with higher frequency content.

Anything above 150Hz is what I consider midrange... Anything above 150Hz can be heard on mobile phone speakers. We all know that they're designed to play heavy bass lol Wink

miss_molinari wrote:
Daft tnuc wrote:To me, it feels like cutting the kick above 80 hz makes it sound weak. I guess it depends on the style. I rather cut below 60 to 80 depending on the tune.

yeah its all about context. in a 'dry' ;) minimal setting im of the opinion you can make a kick punch right up to about 180-200hz, but yeah, depends on when and on what kind of 'punch' (im usually talking a 'bass' hit at about 200hz coupled with a 'knock' hit anywhere up to about 1200hz). i imagine you true dubsteppers prefer a denser 'thump' from 60 through to about 300hz.

Daft tnuc wrote:I began recently the band-reject thing on the sub. Little details that make big difference.

And do you people cut the bass where the snare peaks?

my basses aren't usually middy enough to need that but yeah, a slight sidechain on the main snare and say midbass/pad/wothavyer is nice, especially if the limelight is stolen by a deeper sidechain on the kick and midbass/pad/wothavyer. can create a nice flow (especially when used with long decay reveb linked to the midbass/pad/wothavyer so that it sounds louder and longer the higher the frequency played - might have to post some piccies of that one ;))

Shonky wrote:What I've been doing lately is bouncing down the kick track, lowpassing one somewhere between 100-140 depending on the highest frequencies of the low sub and then sidechaining the sub to the low kick

Then take a copy of the kick track, highpass between 300-1000 and this will give you the beater noise to make the kick cut through. I then sidechain this to the more middly basses. You can also send a small amount to a reverb bus which allows you to avoid mud on the lower frequencies whilst still giving you the space.

Doing it this way seems to make sense to me cause the sidechains work on the corresponding kicks in the same frequency range, so it doesn't cause loads of unnecessary compression where you don't need it

boh wrote:Always make sure your kicks are in tune with the rest of the track.. u'll hear it pitching up and down.. and make sure if ur layering that the transients don't conflict(good monitors make this easy) It all comes down to kick selection.. Whats the point in cutting a kick at 80hz with a fundemental freq of say 60hz. Sure you get whats happening before it, but u won't get the nice thump of the fundemental freq.. Choose other kicks that hit the freq u want (80hz say) instead of cutting them when theres no need to. Unless you really really know what your doing getting technical like this complicates the situation. Esp for people with little experience.

sully.harmitage wrote:50 hz hi pass seems a bit high to me, maybe gd for kicky techno or house but for subby stuff it seems a bit much
defo roll off past 30-35 (most well engineered systems will do this anyways, so any content below this is definately getting wasted)
if yr gonna go higher make sure its a soft curve
i find levelling subs is the hardest part of a mix - cos more always sounds better!
i remember reading breakage saying yr subs shouldnt add more than 3db to yr mix thats seems like a good guide...

btw, sub in kick an bassline simultaeously is gonna cause clashes (n maybe disortion?) id either decrease the attack on the bass or cut the sub from the kick...

unklefesta wrote:I rolloff EVERYTHING at 40hz except my bass

standard

wang wrote:Always do it.

Don't forget, you're ROLLING off the frequencies, not cutting them off all together. Just a couple of dB of bass down there is enough to get some girth without removing all your headroom.

Also analyse and cut off the lows on everything, even if it doesn't appear to have messy lows -You'd be surprised how much bass there is in some high hats.

Jtransition wrote:All of your tracks are going to be different so don't restrict yourself to a certain technique,try different things and listen to the results.

Shonky wrote:
wang wrote:Also analyse and cut off the lows on everything, even if it doesn't appear to have messy lows -You'd be surprised how much bass there is in some high hats.


Yep, this is very true, also worth filtering out the inaudible highs on low sounds as well, found some of my subs which I'd low passed still showed frequency activity much higher than expected.

Jtransition wrote:Stick a high pass filter on everything apart form the kick drum and bass line.70 hertz is a good starting point .........move up or down to taste,And remember try to mix at low levels(Walls not vibrating)

Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl
midrange bass on the other hand you can pan and add stereo fx to your hearts content
Last edited by daft cunt on Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby rendr » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:20 am

Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P
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Postby deadly_habit » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:30 am

when wanting to make heavily modulated sounds split into separate bands into individual buses, then after your manipulation/fx/automation gel back together into one channel.
oh and bitcrushing can yield fun sounds when it comes to bass 8)
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Postby deadly_habit » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:31 am

Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl
midrange bass on the other hand you can pan and add stereo fx to your hearts content
and what the fuck is wrong with psytrance :lol:
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Postby rendr » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:41 am

Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl
midrange bass on the other hand you can pan and add stereo fx to your hearts content
and what the fuck is wrong with psytrance :lol:


Nothing, there's alot of good psytrance out there ...but a hell of a lot of shit stuff too :cry:
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Postby daft cunt » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:47 am

Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl

There was a thread quite recently on the forum linking to the interview of a ME saying the whole sub=mono is a myth.
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Postby d+ » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:58 am

Daft tnuc wrote:
Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl

There was a thread quite recently on the forum linking to the interview of a ME saying the whole sub=mono is a myth.

yeah a very well reputed one too (from dubplates&mastering in berlin)
DUBSTEP/GRIME/GARAGE/TECHNO FOR SALE!
http://www.discogs.com/sell/list?seller=dhay85
HOUSE/TECHNO/DUBSTEP
http://www.myspace.com/domhaywood
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Postby deadly_habit » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:05 am

D+ wrote:
Daft tnuc wrote:
Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl

There was a thread quite recently on the forum linking to the interview of a ME saying the whole sub=mono is a myth.

yeah a very well reputed one too (from dubplates&mastering in berlin)

well everything below 70-80hz is perceived by human ears as mono in general anyways.
note i said mono sub freqs for vinyl cutting
hell read some more from an ME
http://emusician.com/tutorials/masterin ... ndex1.html
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Postby glottis5 » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:50 am

D+ wrote:
Daft tnuc wrote:
Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl

There was a thread quite recently on the forum linking to the interview of a ME saying the whole sub=mono is a myth.

yeah a very well reputed one too (from dubplates&mastering in berlin)


http://monolake.de/interviews/mastering.html

great interview
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Postby deadly_habit » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:55 am

wonder what kinda lathe/cutting head he's using
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Postby james fox » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:02 am

D+ wrote:
Daft tnuc wrote:
Deadly Habit wrote:
Rendr wrote:Basslines in my experience should be mono, due to the fact that humans cannot easily decoded the stereo positioning of low frequency's, so panning basslines (excluding bass sounds with high pitch sounds at around 500Hz+) is not recommended, not only are the low frequency's hard to position with the human ear, the low frequency sound waves are absorbed by the human head at a much higher ratio than high pitch sounds which tend to be reflected. Another thing to note is that club systems are mono. Basslines that pan only belong in Psytrance! :P

sub range should be mono, especially if going to be cut to vinyl

There was a thread quite recently on the forum linking to the interview of a ME saying the whole sub=mono is a myth.

yeah a very well reputed one too (from dubplates&mastering in berlin)


i think the point is that it is possible, just not particularly desirable. i believe that most club systems are mono anyway.
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Postby caeraphym » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:25 pm

Most decent club installs will be mono from ~30-120Hz and stereo from there on up, that encompasses all the sub-bass and kick bass cabinets frequency range, which was nice...

What's the harmonic frequency of 1210's btw?
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Postby dj grimzee » Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:21 am

.
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Postby q_steppa » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:02 am

*facepalm*
wat
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Postby lowpass » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:43 am

.
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Postby rendr » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:51 am

Image
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Postby Hamishfox » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:32 pm

.
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Postby nhat » Sun May 22, 2011 1:15 pm

.
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Postby Eridu » Sun May 22, 2011 1:25 pm

lowpass wrote:

Sooo what the hells your problem?


do you have to quote his entire post? what`s your problem?
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