echo effect at the start of benga's night

doomtube · Post by **doomtube** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:56 pm

i was listening to diary of an afro warrior and have become entranced by that echo sound that at the beginning of Night...
I was wondering how to reproduce its sound using reason 3....
any ideas?
it just sounds like a lot more that a simple echo effect.... also it has a truly amazing sub bass in fact it well might be the best tune so far...

jheri · Post by **jheri** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:48 pm

It just sounds like a regular echo with a similar pad underneath.

knobgoblin · Post by **knobgoblin** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:12 am

its a delay but one that has a filter in the feedback loop. unfortunalty you cant do this in reason as you can only insert filters and effects after the whole delay. it sounds cool because the sound gets more and more high passed and saturated each time it echoes. if you have another program with rewire, look for a tape delay plug as they usually have a filter in the feedback loop. audio damages dubstation is my personal fave and it is cheap as hell

doomstep · Post by **doomstep** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:42 am

KnobGoblin wrote:unfortunalty you cant do this in reason as you can only insert filters and effects after the whole delay.

of course you can!

Just not the way the program sets shit up for you.

Basic Feedback Patch

Loads of modulation goin on there so u can hear whats goin on, turn the res on the ECF & the Aux send on Chan.2 up to hear it even more. The LFO in the subtractor is modulating the cutoff freq. along with the curve output of the Matrix. The PEQ is there to stop it from goin fully nuts.

The next step is to replace the PEQ with a Scream 4 in tape mode - chances of speaker / ear busting go up 100% then, so watch yr volume!

Reason will not only allow you to create feedback loops but it will also self oscillate without crashing.

Srsly tho Reason can do most things you just need to flip the rack round & learn whats goin on.

doomtube · Post by **doomtube** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:05 pm

right thats my saturday afternoon sorted,,,, i will be trying to make the echo to end all echos....... thanks for the advice, i have yet to make a dubstep track but the music i do..do (doobeee do) is here: http://www.last.fm/music/ameobatube and i have two albums on there not one like it says god dam it sio if anyone has any lastfm advice too.....

thank you...

hugh · Post by **hugh** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:50 pm

KnobGoblin wrote:its a delay but one that has a filter in the feedback loop. unfortunalty you cant do this in reason as you can only insert filters and effects after the whole delay. it sounds cool because the sound gets more and more high passed and saturated each time it echoes. if you have another program with rewire, look for a tape delay plug as they usually have a filter in the feedback loop. audio damages dubstation is my personal fave and it is cheap as hell

Just split the signal out with the spider splitter and send one the mixer and one to a thor with a high pass filter. program thor to let the signal from audio 1+2 in to go into filter 3. Then send the thor signal out into a delay line. Then automate the filter on Thor and hey presto ur done.
learn to use reason properly!

black lotus · Post by **black lotus** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:40 pm

doomtube wrote: the echo to end all echos.......

no such thing

knobgoblin · Post by **knobgoblin** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:48 am

the problem with this workaround is that it introduces a dc offset builds up and becomes uncontrollable once you add much feedback. This means it cant be used for really long sustained feedback like in the track "Night". It also lets the non filtered feedback loop back into the signal, minimizing the successive filtering and saturation effect that can be achieved with a plugin meant to do it. The other problem is that the mixer and line mixer introduce several samples of latency when you bring a send back onto its own track instead of using the send-returns so that the feedback you do get always has a bit of flanging on it. I know that you can do these things in reason (i've been using it since version 1), but im just saying its sometimes better to use the correct tool instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole. That said, I havent upgraded to version 4 so maybe they fixed the latency and dc offset issues since 3.5.

doomstep · Post by **doomstep** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:22 am

Its hardly a work around. That is how you do filtered feedback delays. Take the output of your digital delay line, BBD, tape loop, whatever into a channel on the desk & send it back into itself.

The OP was asking for ways to do it in Reason 3. There are millions of VSTs of course, sometimes its better to do it with what you have & learn a few things along the way, discover some new sounds for yrself. The patch Hugh suggested is for filtered delays, not filtered feedback.

If you only want the delay sound, not the dry, flip the mixer sends to 'pre' in the aux section on the back & turn the dry signal (channel 1) down. Pure delay - make sure the wet/dry mix of the delays is set to all wet & the feedback controls are all the way down. Then automate the aux send on chan.1 to only 'dub' out @ certain points. Redownload the link in my 1st post for an example of this. I like this technique as you can use the internal feedback of the DDLs, that flange sound caused by the latency you mention can be usefull at low feedback settings - automate it. I'm not overly worried about latency in a delay patch

With the dc offset issue, yeah, this is a problem, but, its a 'good' problem. This is what happens in the real world with this technique, well, not quite dc offset still. Listen to any 1st wave dub record & you will hear messy delays edgeing towards feedback chaos, the skill is in the hands of the operator to control it, I'd much rather that than the super safe world of pre-configured plug-ins that have had certain choices made for you with regards to what is 'correct' & what isn't. The patch I posted is a very basic building block, bundle it into a combinator to make automation easier, add another filter to help control the feedback. The scream 4 in tape mode is great for this, roll off the hi-end & use loads of compression & not alot of damage. Then use the built in EQ to control the feedback.

You can also use the RV7000 w/ the multitap algorithm in place of the DDLs - tho it won't be true stereo, but, you'll have abit more control & more taps!

Sticking square pegs in round holes is how you get cool sounds! (& alot of terrible ones, but then you've learnt what not to do next time!)

doomproduction · Post by **doomproduction** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:50 pm

seeing as doomstep and doomtube have commented, i felt obliged to say something. not something helpful, just something

Hide_One · Post by **Hide_One** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:51 pm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wj7b0esJB_o

^ As above (sometimes delays r sketchy tho), if you add a reverb in the mix the reverb will be looped and fedback for an endless echo.
Add a BV512 vocoder in EQ mode before the reverb and you've got no end of automation possibilites.
Using a drum hits reverb feedback along with automating the fader and pan can give you some lush dynamics.

echo effect at the start of benga's night

echo effect at the start of benga's night

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