Banksy at it again.

[rickyricardo]

I'd never really heard of this guy until the Hilton thing, so I can't draw upon a history of his other works/spectacles to assess what kind of person he is....and frankly i could care less. To me, it just seems rather silly to go through such effort to say something so uncontroversial. Any cleverness in the act itself seems undermined by it's particularly unclever message.

"Paris Hilton is a silver-spoon socialite who's only real talent is exploiting her name and playing up to that persona"....wow, i mean i never heard *that* one before. The next thing you know, he'll be telling me that MTV doesn't play music.

If the point isn't in the message (as some people have inferred)...then what is the point?!

[rachel]

I don't think I've ever seen anything by him which is "cluelessly colonial".

Everything ive seen is the harsh truth, it always means something...

And surely cluelessly colonial is reference to him taking the piss out of the worst side of his society? Or you think the man is actually clueless?

it's all open to interpretation obviously, but my take is that it's self-publicising. this is all good, and banksy's by no means the only 1, but i'm uneasy with self-publicity based on other ppl's bad situations. plus aiming at paris hilton is not too revolutionary. society is to celeb-oriented??? my, i'd never noticed. thank god for banksy.

i think he's probably unintentionally colonialist in a couple of places - that's the clueless bit. other than that, no doubt he's made money/a name for himself. bit like paris init.

[boomnoise]

what conspiracy theories?

Well I was talking about people saying it's all a big plot orchestrated by Banksy and HMV and even Paris Hilton, to get some extra publicity and cash.

Mate, i work in this industry and that is more than likely. I'm not conspiritorial at all but i know how these things work.

I really can't be bother to get into all the reasons i have zero respect for him but i will leave it with the fact that he says nothing to me about my life and that's enough.

[bagelator]

its his content that tends to fuck me right off. like going to palestine and drawing patronising 'witty' little murals on the wall keeping palistinians out of israel. really really in bad taste.

Unwelcome intervention
Banksy also records on his website how an old Palestinian man said his painting made the wall look beautiful. Banksy thanked him, only to be told: 'We don't want it to be beautiful, we hate this wall. Go home.'

[rickyricardo]

and if the point is unclear that's entirely his problem

Welcome to the wonderful world of 21st century art

...and thus why the modern "artist" isn't as much an artist as a brand. Walking testaments to their own self-promotion and ego.

Rather than saying something interesting or profound, they are just content w/ saying *something*

/my attitudes on "modern art" in a nutshell.

[ufo over easy]

Mate, i work in this industry and that is more than likely.

I still don't believe you I've had enough of being cynical and pissed off when I don't need to be. It just gets me down

ben i think its simplifying things to say he 'draws pictures'

I don't think so. It's all about what you personally read into it. I'm happy to accept banksy images as just cool things to look at when I'm walking down the road. I don't need to contemplate his motivation, how much money he's making or anything like that. I don't have anything invested in art or graff, which is probably important. I've never met him, never talked to him, never talked to anyone that knows him, and I don't really want to. As far as I'm concerned, he makes pictures.

i dont really see the difference between his shallow images that beg subversivity and Che Guevara merchandise

In that he's making money? It's the problem if you do this kind of thing - as soon as you become successful people turn on you for selling out. Same with most things. If your art is about subversion, as soon as you become successful some of the impact is lost.

...and thus why the modern "artist" isn't as much an artist as a brand. Walking testaments to their own self-promotion and ego.

So disengage yourself from the artist and just look at the results. I like loads of art but I have no interest in talking to the people that created it. Idiots are incredibly easy to ignore if you just don't let yourself get wound up.

[superisk]

I don't think I've ever seen anything by him which is "cluelessly colonial".

Everything ive seen is the harsh truth, it always means something...

And surely cluelessly colonial is reference to him taking the piss out of the worst side of his society? Or you think the man is actually clueless?

it's all open to interpretation obviously, but my take is that it's self-publicising. this is all good, and banksy's by no means the only 1, but i'm uneasy with self-publicity based on other ppl's bad situations. plus aiming at paris hilton is not too revolutionary. society is to celeb-oriented??? my, i'd never noticed. thank god for banksy.

i think he's probably unintentionally colonialist in a couple of places - that's the clueless bit. other than that, no doubt he's made money/a name for himself. bit like paris init.

I get what your saying, it is all opinion at the end of the day...I see the self publicising as on par as a graff writer, everyone writes to be seen, Banksy wants to be seen, but hes not doing it in a look at me money and fame way. The lastest stunt wasnt ingenious, but theres no way he was in on it with HMV. It wouldnt benefit him, plus hes proved he can always do shit like this off his own back.

People are always guna take things in different ways...

[rachel]

[quote="UFO over easy"
I've had enough of being cynical and pissed off when I don't need to be
[quote]

dear god what are u doing with yr time...?

[mos dan]

...and thus why the modern "artist" isn't as much an artist as a brand. Walking testaments to their own self-promotion and ego.

So disengage yourself from the artist and just look at the results. I like loads of art but I have no interest in talking to the people that created it. Idiots are incredibly easy to ignore if you just don't let yourself get wound up.

I think this is really spot on Ben. And I know the feeling about running out of energy on this board (I'm never getting in another argument about music journalism again!). But I still loathe Banksy, his work, and everything he stands for

[mos dan]

ps i second boom's point about it plausibly being a pr stunt. the man does this for a living, he knows

[ufo over easy]

dear god what are u doing with yr time...?

[superisk]

Mate, i work in this industry and that is more than likely.

I still don't believe you I've had enough of being cynical and pissed off when I don't need to be. It just gets me down

Mate we all know how the industry works, but Banksy is not part of that industry He could be making a killing but hes not. What did he get out of the HMV stunt? Some publicity? yes. Theres no way he got money from it, and if theres no money involved it wouldnt benefit him in the slightest being in it with HMV. He can make his own publicity, he doesnt need help...

PS im in work and have F ALL better to do

[boomnoise]

The lastest stunt wasnt ingenious, but theres no way he was in on it with HMV. It wouldnt benefit him, plus hes proved he can always do shit like this off his own back.

Why on earth wouldn't it benefit him? Profile raised, his own personal brand value raised, he sells a few more books (which HMV undoubtedly sell) and possibly pockets a fat check from the record label. The deal with HMV would have been set up by the label's PR team and HMV are gagging for publicity at the moment.

And i can confirm that Paris Hilton sales have shot up this week and not just sales from people looking for a piece of banksy.

[rickyricardo]

...and thus why the modern "artist" isn't as much an artist as a brand. Walking testaments to their own self-promotion and ego.

So disengage yourself from the artist and just look at the results. I like loads of art but I have no interest in talking to the people that created it. Idiots are incredibly easy to ignore if you just don't let yourself get wound up.

I 100% agree. My problem is that often the results just don't speak for much when taken out of it's artist-centered context.

I have no problem w/ the artist injecting themself into the narrative (without that we would'nt even be able to call it art). I'm just suspect when the artist becomes the narrative....especially to the degree that if you were to take away the context of the artist, you are left with nothing. Meaninglessness.

[superisk]

The lastest stunt wasnt ingenious, but theres no way he was in on it with HMV. It wouldnt benefit him, plus hes proved he can always do shit like this off his own back.

Why on earth wouldn't it benefit him? Profile raised, his own personal brand value raised, he sells a few more books (which HMV undoubtedly sell) and possibly pockets a fat check from the record label. The deal with HMV would have been set up by the label's PR team and HMV are gagging for publicity at the moment.

And i can confirm that Paris Hilton sales have shot up this week and not just sales from people looking for a piece of banksy.

He can raise his own profile, always has. He can still sell books by pulling the stunt himself. Do you really think Paris Hilton would want Banksy to publicly rip her to help her boost sales? She has a million other low seedy ways of boosting her sales. Guaranteed the banksy stunt isnt the only publicity Paris has had all week?....

Banksy got himself some publicity, took the piss and was probably pretty pleased with himself. Whether you like his work/him or not, there is no way/no benefit for him to be helped by HMV. All his fame and recognition was made by himself.

But once again its all matter of opinion as we will never know the truth .

Plus ive finished work

[alex bk-bk]

ben i didint mean the che merchandise in terms of its commercial value, more in terms of the supposedly rebelious, subversive imagery that's actually really trite and drained of meaning


but yeah... dont have enough energy to coninue arguing about this one

[ramadanman]

i like looking at his pictures

his followers can be a bit "nathan barley" - coffee table graf books anyone?

[m9918868]

[fubar]

I dont get this whole publicity stunt argument to be honest, obviously if you're going to do any thing thats on view to the public its publicity, if people think its shit then its obviously not going to do him any good so its like any media really.

I personally like to see crap like Paris hilton get publicly ripped and for it to be noticed by the media, and allthough im not into going into all the supposed political meanings and agendas behind his other work I still enjoy it and think its good that hes there and part of our culture. I also reckon that saying he has any links with paris hiltons record company or hmv is cynicism to the extreme.

[Jubz]

subversive imagery that's actually really trite and drained of meaning


but yeah... dont have enough energy to coninue arguing about this one

Think this sums Banksy up quite well.