Making Kick drums stand out

[rickyrich]

okay, i think i have just learned that you can't go any higher than 12db cause it sounds like a fart

[jackieboi]

Some well good advice in this thread anyway cheers everyone!

My kicks are sounding sicker already.

[caeraphym]

http://www.teragon.org/products/KickMaker.html
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/2321.html

If of any use to anyone?

[Brisance]

The fruit kick, hell, even 3xOSC on fruity makes helluva kicks too, almost any soft synth does.
Also, I do this to a single kick sample(I got a few favourites) and blam! a kick that punches you in the gut

[d+]

Would you recommend going higher? i got 78-156hz up to 12db and the rest is at 0.

Sounds better already i think i will add mclass eq to all my sounds.

Thats textbook comedy.

lol...

i wouldn't boost at 12db anywhere in my tune if i could avoid it mate. but each to their own.

[FSTZ1]

+12db ???

what do you have your project settings at?

[rickyrich]

no have idea mate, you are talking to a complete novice. All i am good at is playing and writing punk/metal on a guitar.

I only learned basics around frequencies about two weeks. All i have done since then is read everything i can.

But i learned about 12db the hard way the other day - sounded terrible. I now know it's a no go zone.

[fiziks]

make everything else smaller. you've got up to 0db and that's it, so the amount of sound in a tune is a very finite #.

start with a big kick sound. maybe limit it, too, to balance out the attack w/ the body.

and then, yep-- across all genres, a tried-and-true way to start mixing is to get your kick and snare banging and then bring everything else in around them.

also, at some point turn your monitors way down-- in pop music, you want the vocal, snare, and kick to be the loudest. w/o a vocal, you want your kick and snare to be the clearest sounds....

(unless, of course, you don't).

Right on, agree with most of that. A 909 or something similar over an organic drum or 2 is the way to get a proper fat drum. Just make sure the organic isn't clashing frequencies with the 909. Adjust the pitch so they mesh well. Even if you think it sounds pitched good already, fuck around with it anyways, you may find something better.

In the mix you want to make sure that you highpass(or low cut) the kick channel so it dosen't interfere with your sub. On that same note don't let that sub get too high. If you're using a straight sine for a sub that shouldn't be an issue. Also, on your midrange bass, if it's hitting the same time as your kick, notch the most dominant frequencies of your kick out of the mid bass. Or at least bring it down a few db's with a parametric eq.

One other way to make your kick punchy and not lost in the mix is to draw a very short volume envelope on the bass channel just as the kick is hitting. Very short as in milliseconds. A micro edit. This way it will stand out on it's own because there is no bass at all. This is a great method to make it stand out and also give you some extra headroom. Also, with this method, you could give it more bottom end because it won't be clashing with your bassline.

Obviously every track is different and needs a fresh approach each time. Hope this helps!

[beerz]

I've been sidechaining a parametric eq with kick and bass. So if I do have a big bass that sustains, the kick will knock a notch in the bass around its core freqs. With the proper release, you won't hear the bass take the hit, but the kick will ketch ye in the balls.

that sounds like a more efficient side-chain compression method which id never thought about...

[fiziks]

What does the effects chain look like when you sidechain a parametric eq?? I've sidechained compressors on a bass bus to duck when a kick triggers it before. Although, I don't really like that method because when you played the bass on it's own without the kick it was too loud. I know you can use a ghost bus of sorts to trigger the compressor even when the kick isn't playing, but I never got the hang of it. Anyways, how does the kick trigger the eq? Sounds interesting.

My method of drawing in a volume envelope is basically the same except you don't use a compressor or eq and there's no phase issues to worry about either since it's only volume. It's a little more time consuming (although you can copy and paste the automation), but it's very effective.

[dj_march]

For anyone new to this area here's a few tips for kick and bass:

EQ - Generally it is always better to cut than boost. If you want a more bassy sound, cut some of the high and turn the track up a little.

If you must boost - try to use a wide band ( Q ) Narrow band eq boosts sound harsh, but narrow band cuts often sound fine.

Work out which sound sits where in terms of frequency. If you want the bass to be sub, cut some of the frequencies above where it has most energy. If the kick has most of its enery in the space where you cut the bass' eq you'r sorted, if not, try cutting the kick drum where the bass energy peaks.

If the mix still sounds muddy, this is wher sidechaining is useful.

To setup a sidechain compression:

Make a kick drum track on a new channel that ghosts what the kick is doing in the main drum track. Mute this channel.

Insert a compressor on the bass channel. Set it's side chain input to the new kick track. Now the compressor will only be activated when the ghost kick sounds (even though you cant hear the ghost kick)

This will cause gain reduction on the bass channel everytime the kick comes in. All you do then is set the amount of gain reduction that you want with ratio and threshold and then set the hold/release time so that the bass comes back to full volume immediately after the bass sounds, or you can set it with a slow release to add a little warping effect as the bass swells back in ( can be pretty cool )

You can do the same thing with an EQ so that the EQ on the bass track cuts frequences from the bass channel when the ghost kick sounds - this can give another ducking effect which can work really well

Hope this helps.

[rendr]

For anyone new to this area here's a few tips for kick and bass:

EQ - Generally it is always better to cut than boost. If you want a more bassy sound, cut some of the high and turn the track up a little.

If you must boost - try to use a wide band ( Q ) Narrow band eq boosts sound harsh, but narrow band cuts often sound fine.

Work out which sound sits where in terms of frequency. If you want the bass to be sub, cut some of the frequencies above where it has most energy. If the kick has most of its enery in the space where you cut the bass' eq you'r sorted, if not, try cutting the kick drum where the bass energy peaks.

If the mix still sounds muddy, this is wher sidechaining is useful.

To setup a sidechain compression:

Make a kick drum track on a new channel that ghosts what the kick is doing in the main drum track. Mute this channel.

Insert a compressor on the bass channel. Set it's side chain input to the new kick track. Now the compressor will only be activated when the ghost kick sounds (even though you cant hear the ghost kick)

This will cause gain reduction on the bass channel everytime the kick comes in. All you do then is set the amount of gain reduction that you want with ratio and threshold and then set the hold/release time so that the bass comes back to full volume immediately after the bass sounds, or you can set it with a slow release to add a little warping effect as the bass swells back in ( can be pretty cool )

You can do the same thing with an EQ so that the EQ on the bass track cuts frequences from the bass channel when the ghost kick sounds - this can give another ducking effect which can work really well

Hope this helps.

Great tips there, nice to hear someone talking about parallel compression. First time I've heard it mentioned on this forum ever.

[ELLFIVEDEE]

Great tips there, nice to hear someone talking about parallel compression. First time I've heard it mentioned on this forum ever.

Parallel compression is .. the "new york technique" isn't it?

That's the one

[jackieboi]

For anyone new to this area here's a few tips for kick and bass:

EQ - Generally it is always better to cut than boost. If you want a more bassy sound, cut some of the high and turn the track up a little.

If you must boost - try to use a wide band ( Q ) Narrow band eq boosts sound harsh, but narrow band cuts often sound fine.

Work out which sound sits where in terms of frequency. If you want the bass to be sub, cut some of the frequencies above where it has most energy. If the kick has most of its enery in the space where you cut the bass' eq you'r sorted, if not, try cutting the kick drum where the bass energy peaks.

If the mix still sounds muddy, this is wher sidechaining is useful.

To setup a sidechain compression:

Make a kick drum track on a new channel that ghosts what the kick is doing in the main drum track. Mute this channel.

Insert a compressor on the bass channel. Set it's side chain input to the new kick track. Now the compressor will only be activated when the ghost kick sounds (even though you cant hear the ghost kick)

This will cause gain reduction on the bass channel everytime the kick comes in. All you do then is set the amount of gain reduction that you want with ratio and threshold and then set the hold/release time so that the bass comes back to full volume immediately after the bass sounds, or you can set it with a slow release to add a little warping effect as the bass swells back in ( can be pretty cool )

You can do the same thing with an EQ so that the EQ on the bass track cuts frequences from the bass channel when the ghost kick sounds - this can give another ducking effect which can work really well

Hope this helps.

Sounds like a really good way of doing it! Will need to try this out later on! Cheers.

[james fox]

Work out which sound sits where in terms of frequency. If you want the bass to be sub, cut some of the frequencies above where it has most energy. If the kick has most of its enery in the space where you cut the bass' eq you'r sorted, if not, try cutting the kick drum where the bass energy peaks.

best way to work out where your kick has its punch and weight:

1 - solo the kick drum
2 - put a parametric EQ on it with narrow Q and a lot of boost
3 - run the kick drum, then slowly sweep through the low end
4 - you will hear it 'ring' in tune when you get the right frequency
5 - make a note of the freq and turn the EQ off.
6 - put an EQ on your bass and dip it several DB at that freq

when you play the two together you should hear them gel nicely. bar a tiny bit of compression, that should be it. this technique is one i use a lot for house music, but it applies to dubstep if you like your kick drum to be large and in charge rather than HPd right up to sit on top of the bass.

[paradigm_x]

another tip

when mixing, low pass the entire tune to arounf 150-200hz

you can clearly hear all the gubbins going on down there. set kick and bass level to suit.

I never have got sidechaining to sound good

A notch at around 85-90hz in the bass helps. As mentioned above, a dynamic eq which cuts the eq not the volume would be ideal, but ive not got one.