I think there are a lot of complex factors involved with the radicalisation of western Muslim youths and that, indeed, a lot are related to socio-economic factors rather than ideology.
Interestingly, Chris Morris seems to be working on something in a similar vein. The result of that should be, like the majority of Morris' work, absolutely unmissable.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 28152.html
london march 10th january
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Read the thread man!resktwo wrote: Ill be waiting for your reply , all thoug i know u didnt belive anything i said and u think my mind is filled with "poison"
I think I've done well to answer people in a logical, polite and even-handed manner.
It's pretty obvious that this is something I feel strongly about, but I don't think I've been crass, crude or inflamatory (how do you spell that?) in the slightest.
Perhaps it'd make things easier for you to make your arguement if I started calling you a Zionist-imperialist pig. It sure seems as if you're trying to bait me to do so.
Brilliant. I read about that last year, but it was being touted as a TV series then. Glad it's getting made.Badga Tek wrote:Interestingly, Chris Morris seems to be working on something in a similar vein. The result of that should be, like the majority of Morris' work, absolutely unmissable.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-enter ... 28152.html
Agreed. There was no need for that sort of cynicism when this has been such an even tempered conversation by all involved.tr0tsky wrote:Read the thread man!resktwo wrote: Ill be waiting for your reply , all thoug i know u didnt belive anything i said and u think my mind is filled with "poison"
I think I've done well to answer people in a logical, polite and even-handed manner.
It's pretty obvious that this is something I feel strongly about, but I don't think I've been crass, crude or inflamatory (how do you spell that?) in the slightest.
Perhaps it'd make things easier for you to make your arguement if I started calling you a Zionist-imperialist pig. It sure seems as if you're trying to bait me to do so.
I can't wait to see this new thing by Chris Morris!! (i got the day today series 2 in the post this morning!!)
i agree with you about social situations leading to the radicalization of people causing them to have warped views etc.
i agree with you about social situations leading to the radicalization of people causing them to have warped views etc.
Why have you disturbed our sleep? Awakened us from our ancient slumber?
You will die! Like the others before you. One by one, we will take you.
http://www.last.fm/music/ameobatube
You will die! Like the others before you. One by one, we will take you.
http://www.last.fm/music/ameobatube
you used the word genocide and said my country is racist. What u said about starbucks isnt true, we dont even have starbucks here. When using this kind of language ur being anti-israeli. I dont mean to be hostile, but dont say youre being even.tr0tsky wrote:Obviously it's not gonna make the Israeli state stop it's genocide, but fuck Starbucks. They make a profit from the produce made on illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza and on the West Bank.
Their CEO is an active supporter and legitimiser (if that's even a word) is the racist Israeli state.
They happily make profit supporting the US in Guantanamo.
They're responsible for driving family-run, local coffeeshops out of business.
They're part of the Americanisation of cultures across the world.
They represent American big-bucks capitalism.
They make fucking piss-poor coffee.
On another note, the most inspiring thing I saw yesterday were people busting into Starbucks, grabbing handfulls of sanwiches and bottles and water and distributing them out to their fellow protestors.
[I'm listening to sub FM at the moment and they've just given you 20 shout outs in the last minute. It's a proper headfuck when you're writing a response to someone and they're saying their name over and over on the radio]
Being aggressive towards each others viewpoints isn't a prerequisite for disagreeing. Let's leave the personal attacks out of this and just stick to the issues, as we were doing so well earlier on, eh?resktwo wrote:you used the word genocide and said my country is racist. What u said about starbucks isnt true, we dont even have starbucks here. When using this kind of language ur being anti-israeli. I dont mean to be hostile, but dont say youre being even.
Present your case about the Palestine/Israel dispute politely and calmly, without resorting to paranoid delusions like the post where, without engaging tr0tsky you accuse him of thinking you're full of "poison", and everyone's open to reasoned discussion. As long as you can explain your opinion then everyone's willing to listen to it... but simply saying that you can't be bothered to read everyone elses viewpoints (in one of the best discussions I've ever seen on this topic on the net) and then coming out with a basless tirade is a quick way to lose respect.
Let's begin again
Being aggressive towards each others viewpoints isn't a prerequisite for disagreeing. Let's leave the personal attacks out of this and just stick to the issues, as we were doing so well earlier on, eh?Magma wrote:you used the word genocide and said my country is racist. What u said about starbucks isnt true, we dont even have starbucks here. When using this kind of language ur being anti-israeli. I dont mean to be hostile, but dont say youre being even.resktwo wrote:[I'm listening to sub FM at the moment and they've just given you 20 shout outs in the last minute. It's a proper headfuck when you're writing a response to someone and they're saying their name over and over on the radio]
Present your case about the Palestine/Israel dispute politely and calmly, without resorting to paranoid delusions like the post where, without engaging tr0tsky you accuse him of thinking you're full of "poison" and everyone's open to reasoned discussion.
Let's begin again
[/quote] i have presented my case in the previous page, and im not here to argue, sorry if i over reacted, i was offended by the unnecessary use of the word racist. This is not about raceYeah, cool, I understand that. I'm feeling a little precious about this thread as I can't believe everyone's managed to balance one of the most divisive issues in the world into a half decent conversation... it'd be great to keep it that way. Openly telling everyone you couldn't be bothered to read their full posts ("i didn;t read everything cuz it;s all the same. i have to say something.") just opens you up to being ignored rather than engaged in conversation. Frankly, doomtube and I seem pretty moderate when it comes to this issue, tr0tsky leans to the Palestinian cause, you appear to lean to the Israeli cause... between the rest of us, we're certainly not "all the same", this is not black and white, that's why we were having a debate!resktwo wrote:i was offended by the unnecessary use of the word racist. This is not about race
tr0tsky might be on the different side of the ideological divide to you, but I expect you both share common ground in wanting to see an end to the conflict. The best way, in my opinion, to achieve that is for both sides to be open to compromise and not hell bent on absolute ideological victory.
No?resktwo wrote:What u said about starbucks isnt true
Did I make up the support the CEO gives to the state of Israel, and the awards he has recieved in return?
Although some can argue that the "Jewish people" and the Palestinains are all Semites (discounting the fact that there are White Israelis from Russia and New York, Indian ones from Mumbai and black ones from Ethiopia), it's clear that the practices of systematic descrimination does constitute racism.i was offended by the unnecessary use of the word racist. This is not about race
The very basis of the Israeli constitution is racist!
The whole basis of the Right of Return stinks of racism. In effect, "a child and a grandchild of a Jew, the spouse of a Jew, the spouse of a child of a Jew and the spouse of a grandchild of a Jew" can gain automatic citizenship in Israel.
Let me illustrate the point I'm trying to make: Ben Fischer, somebody who can trace his family to the East coast of the USA for 200 years can have a peice of land because some book written thousands of years ago by who knows who says so.
However Mohammed Ibrahim's family, living in a refugee camp in Lebanon, whose parents fled their farm in what in now Israel in 1948 do not have a snowflake's chance in HELL of ever being their olive trees again.
Why does Ben have a right to the land and Mohammed not?
I don't like to quote famous people to make my arguements for me, I've got enough confidence in my own conviction to make them myself. However, it seems as if I need to support my arguement.
Shall we find.....hmm.....sobody who knows a thing or two about racism?
Desmond Tutu:
"As a black South African, and if I were to change the names, a description of what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank could describe events in South Africa."
and the most cutting one I've seen:"...the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about"
[Zionism has] "very many parallels with racism"... [it] "excludes people on ethnic or other grounds over which they have no control".
Then there's the very real case of the treatment of the Israeli state of it's own black Jews.
From http://nazret.com/blog/index.php?title= ... &tb=1&pb=1
TEL AVIV,, 29 June 2008 (IRIN) - The Ethiopian Jews who have emigrated to Israel over the past 30 years have not integrated well. A recent report by the state comptroller blamed successive governments.
...
Observers also said racial tensions had contributed to the community's continued disconnect from mainstream Israeli society.
And Resktwo, chill out a bit bredbin.
Respect to us all for behaving like adults.
Last edited by tr0tsky on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You're true, I am being anti-Israeli.resktwo wrote:
When using this kind of language ur being anti-israeli. I dont mean to be hostile, but dont say youre being even.
I'm being a crytic of the very foundation of which the Israeli state was built.
Also, you're partially right that I'm not being even. Having already analysed and attempted to understand the conflict I've drawn the conclusion that I morally support a particular conclusion. I have however attempted to understand and utilise the arguements presented by both sides when making my final analysis, which is the most anyone can ask for.
But most importantly, I'm being civil, humane and rational in how I present my arguments, using where possible facts to substantiate my arguement.
Last edited by tr0tsky on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
about starbucks, they dont use occupied territories. About the law youre right. I dont agree with this law, but! This law was invented as a respond to a law of the sizan stating anyone who has up to a jewish grandfather is worth killing. U stil didnt tell me ur opinions about hamas and what i said about it. And about the israeli civilians that got killed during the passed 8 years. Im up for a calm intectual discussion. Im Not trying to fight, just trying to show you the sense in this awful war
Sorry Firky you really must have me confused with somebody else.Firky wrote:Yeah because you're really a well respected voice over there. Little boys and their tankies.
I've maybe posted 100 times top on Urban, mainly questions about student and education issues/ having fabric colours in the washing run/ what you can or can't do on antibiotics.
Oh well civil conversation seems to have been crushed by posts I do not
a) understand.
b)want to understand.
c)seem to be nothing to do with the thread's tittle
Shame really... but it was good whilst it lasted....
a) understand.
b)want to understand.
c)seem to be nothing to do with the thread's tittle
Shame really... but it was good whilst it lasted....
Why have you disturbed our sleep? Awakened us from our ancient slumber?
You will die! Like the others before you. One by one, we will take you.
http://www.last.fm/music/ameobatube
You will die! Like the others before you. One by one, we will take you.
http://www.last.fm/music/ameobatube
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