Dubplates vs. Vinyl Cuts

surface_tension · Post by **surface_tension** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:54 am

clarkycatDealer wrote:"Real DJs play vinyl."

i guess ritchie hawtin isn't a dj then? ?

He's a Live PA. 90% of the sets I've seen/heard from him were totally Live and on the fly. He's so far beyond a DJ that DJ's are like a fly on an elephants ass compared to him.

spooKs · Post by **spooKs** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:20 am

yeah when i saw LivePA Richie Hawtin in 2005 he was fucking incredible

djfoster · Post by **djfoster** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:44 pm

I play vinyl, reading all your post you convince me that best thing is acetate dubplates, 10" for me beacuse is cheapest. Now I have some good stuff so I want to own my dubplates to have a nice set with exclusive/unreleased/forthcoming tunes

-transition or dubstudio? don't consider prices, their dubplates sounds too different?

-what big names think?

-can I press free 320 that people give?

-can I press free 320 that big names give?

for the rest I'm with this man:

eshscramble wrote:now, $260 isn't bad when you consider you would have almost a full set of really good sounding tunes that no one has - throw the essential tunes of the moment/past in there, and you will easily have a memorable set.

when you buy a 12, or play a 320 that everyone has, it's only good for about a week, or at least that's how i feel. worth the money imo, maybe when i have some of that money, i'll get some cut!

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:30 pm

Dubwoofa showed me an acetate from Transition of scare them.
It had lower output and less punch than the vinyl cut I got of the same tune from Henry (dubstudio)
So my conclusion is: it all depends on how much time the guys doing the actual mastering and cutting puts into it!
(not trying to say transition is lazy, just that they probably have a lot more dubs to cut . . .)

djfoster · Post by **djfoster** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:33 pm

djfoster wrote:I play vinyl, reading all your post you convince me that best thing is acetate dubplates, 10" for me beacuse is cheapest. Now I have some good stuff so I want to own my dubplates to have a nice set with exclusive/unreleased/forthcoming tunes

-transition or dubstudio? don't consider prices, their dubplates sounds too different?

-what big names think?

-can I press free 320 that people give?

-can I press free 320 that big names give?

for the rest I'm with this man:

eshscramble wrote:now, $260 isn't bad when you consider you would have almost a full set of really good sounding tunes that no one has - throw the essential tunes of the moment/past in there, and you will easily have a memorable set.

when you buy a 12, or play a 320 that everyone has, it's only good for about a week, or at least that's how i feel. worth the money imo, maybe when i have some of that money, i'll get some cut!

advise please

Littlefoot · Post by **Littlefoot** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:23 pm

got some dubs from Dubstudio the other day, sound freakin great

really got that raw but flattering when played out loud sound which seperates them from mp3s by far

taal mala · Post by **taal mala** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:50 pm

eshscramble wrote:and for us stateside people, i hear joe nice has said some good things about http://www.turnstylerecords.com/

yes!

big up Oscar and Sue at turnstyle.

cut over 50+ plates with them over the years and have no complaints.

good pricing too!

$30 for 10" dubs both sides.

$15 a track isn't any more than you would pay for a vinyl in north america that had one track that you wanted, so it's teechincally a better deal if you put two bangers on it, init...

Shift Recordings · Post by **Shift Recordings** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:01 pm

Yes, yes..Biggup Turnstyle for sure!!

rob sparx · Post by **rob sparx** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:59 am

Joe C wrote: plus if you get Transition or Dub Studio to do some mastering for the dub, not a proffesional master but come on these guys master these kinda tunes day in day out and dont fuck about, then your tune will sound SO MUCH better than the DJ before who was playing his mates unmastered 320s. believe.

This whole "get ur tune mastered and its gonna sound great" mentality is wrong - take your own set of headphones down (so you know the sound your listening to) and sit in on the mastering session and cross-reference a LOUD mix of your original tune with the pre-master that the engineer is working with (otherwise u might mistakenly think that the extra volume is a better mix). Engineers do make mistakes (some more than others!) here's a few examples:

- Engineer rolls out sub below 30hz and high frequencies before even listening to the tune properly (this aint rock music!)
- Engineers chooses a limiter that 'squeezes' the sound horribly in the loudest section of the tune or even distorts the whole mix
- Engineer doesn't boost the treble above 16khz as 'the human ear can't hear that high'
- Big pops and clicks from outboard kit get left unnoticed
- Engineer boosts wrong mix of tune and whole thing gets limited twice

etc etc This shit happens all the time even to the best engineers so don't be complacent about mastering and assume that because there's a huge amount of hype surrounding the studio/engineer that it means they're not going to make mistakes. Whats the point in paying for something if its making the tune sound worse? A mix that your happy with cut to vinyl/acetate with no mastering is better than a dodgy master every time!

rev · Post by **rev** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:52 pm

about the high frequency cut, this makes great sense, since you can't cut frequencies above 13000 hz to dubplates anyway.
And nearly every sound engineer you will meet, makes a low cut at 45-50 hz since there is almost only rumble below here, and if there are any sound information there, it will be impossible to make the groove wide enough on a vinyl or dubplate. Another thing is most turntables tonearms has a resonance frequency around 20-30 hz, so it is not possible to get that low frequencies played properly.

wascal · Post by **wascal** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:23 pm

Sight wrote:it is really boring watching someone play with their laptop. IMO

Don't watch them then, have a dance instead.

pdomino · Post by **pdomino** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:35 pm

Vinyl and a few things cut at Transition. No qualms.

Elkie · Post by **Elkie** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:06 pm

so after reading this im thinking maybe i should try getting a few of my own dubplates or acetates cut, but theres a few things i wanted to ask about first...

where do i stand with cutting other peoples tunes?

is it ok for me to cut tunes bought digitally or ripped from a cd?
can i cut dubplates of tunes that i have downloaded for free on the forum?
can i cut dubplates of tunes ive been sent by people?

cheers guys!

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:14 pm

just ask the ones that made the tune ?!!

gimpyj · Post by **gimpyj** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:31 pm

turnstyle is the old n2o guys right? odg an dem? didn't know they were still around.. down in cali right?

jtransition · Post by **jtransition** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:34 pm

rev wrote:about the high frequency cut, this makes great sense, since you can't cut frequencies above 13000 hz to dubplates anyway.

Incorrect, The Neumann cutting electronics is accurate upto 16k which does not mean that it will not reproduce anything higher.

And nearly every sound engineer you will meet, makes a low cut at 45-50 hz since there is almost only rumble below here, and if there are any sound information there,

I cannot speak for everyone but each track is different so you eq accordingly.

it will be impossible to make the groove wide enough on a vinyl or dubplate.

Incorect .I cannot remember how low the SX74 can go but it is lower than 45hz

pdomino · Post by **pdomino** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:34 pm

TightLife wrote:so after reading this im thinking maybe i should try getting a few of my own dubplates or acetates cut, but theres a few things i wanted to ask about first...

where do i stand with cutting other peoples tunes?

is it ok for me to cut tunes bought digitally or ripped from a cd?
can i cut dubplates of tunes that i have downloaded for free on the forum?
can i cut dubplates of tunes ive been sent by people?

cheers guys!

As long as your not making profits, should be cool, usually best to check.

jtransition · Post by **jtransition** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:44 pm

spiro wrote:Dubwoofa showed me an acetate from Transition of scare them.
It had lower output and less punch than the vinyl cut I got of the same tune from Henry (dubstudio)
So my conclusion is: it all depends on how much time the guys doing the actual mastering and cutting puts into it!
(not trying to say transition is lazy, just that they probably have a lot more dubs to cut . . .)

There can be a million reasons for this (not all to do with the process).
If you are seriously interested in comparing us with anyone worldwide(vinyl cuts or dubs) then PM me.
Jason

rob sparx · Post by **rob sparx** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:43 am

rev wrote:about the high frequency cut, this makes great sense, since you can't cut frequencies above 13000 hz to dubplates anyway.
And nearly every sound engineer you will meet, makes a low cut at 45-50 hz since there is almost only rumble below here, and if there are any sound information there, it will be impossible to make the groove wide enough on a vinyl or dubplate. Another thing is most turntables tonearms has a resonance frequency around 20-30 hz, so it is not possible to get that low frequencies played properly.

You might not be able to hear all the highs of a >20khz boost you can easily hear it sounds very different to a lower treble boost - crispier and less tinny. If there was no point to the higher frequencies in mastering then why would some expensive analogue EQs go up to 27khz? This principle applies in writing tunes as well not just in mastering - by boosting frequencies higher than the human ear can hear u are still boosting lower treble frequencies and with a different response than a lower frequency boost - I'm always boosting sounds @ 20hkz in the tune and often @ the mastering stage as well.

For lower frequencies its different in every tune but I think rolling off low frequencies can ruin bass response in dubstep (especially as high as 45-50hz!) - fine if your writing pop music thats gonna be played mainly on radio not in clubs or rock/indie where the lower bass guitar frequencies can be a bit nasty but not in dubstep! I've spoke to Stuart Hawkes (Metropolis) about low frequencies and he said reducing the bass response is usually better than rolling it off if the bass needs it (and like ive said some guys mistakenly roll off EVERY tune b4 they've even listened to it!). If any engineer suggests u roll off your bass and u don't think there's a need for it then tell them not 2 do it.

Another thing 2 watch out for is stereo width in the bass range (up to 300hz), with stereo width some engineers might a bit heavy handed so that they know the tune will definately cut ok and overprocess - eg. completely monos frequencies up to 300hz when higher portion of that range should be narrowed but not completely mono.

Dubplates vs. Vinyl Cuts

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