london march 10th january

magma · Post by **magma** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:08 pm

doomtube wrote:Oh well civil conversation seems to have been crushed by posts I do not

a) understand.

b)want to understand.

c)seem to be nothing to do with the thread's tittle

Shame really... but it was good whilst it lasted....

Hmm, yeah :/

Whilst we're entirely off topic - is that a Hitch Hiker's Guide reference in your sig?

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:44 pm

it's from Bone isn't it?

Pistonsbeneath · Post by **Pistonsbeneath** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:50 pm

do these things achieve anything besides a few middle class people feeling a bit more smug?

its just a question....if so please give examples

deamonds · Post by **deamonds** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:54 pm

Piston wrote:do these things achieve anything besides a few middle class people feeling a bit more smug?

its just a question....if so please give examples

yes they ruined a perfectly good window, and a starbucks...god, how can they be so cruel, dont they know how important coffee is too some people...god damn

tr0tsky · Post by **tr0tsky** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:09 pm

ARGHH

[shortned for formatting but the point still stands]

I fucking did the whole write a long reply and then close the window by mistake thing again.

Maybe God is trying to tell me not to fuck with the Israeli state and it's people.

doomtube · Post by **doomtube** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:30 pm

Magma if the question about the signature was to me... its a quote from the "evil dead" one of the finest films ever made. Making utterly fantastic use of porridge and mushy peas!!!

doomtube · Post by **doomtube** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:37 pm

Oh and piston whats so fucking wrong with middle class people? i mean why aren't middle class people allowed to feel angry about things... i'm not standing up for there smugness BUT it fucks me off when people say 'middle class' this and 'middle class' that...
I mean if every think was left up to the 'working class' and the 'upper class' where would be be....
this however has nothing to do with the topic either blah blah blah .... i saw that paul burrel advert with thingys tune (is it benga) like WTF is that!!!! someone is responsible for this!!!

Pistonsbeneath · Post by **Pistonsbeneath** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:06 am

doomtube wrote:Oh and piston whats so fucking wrong with middle class people? i mean why aren't middle class people allowed to feel angry about things... i'm not standing up for there smugness BUT it fucks me off when people say 'middle class' this and 'middle class' that...
I mean if every think was left up to the 'working class' and the 'upper class' where would be be....
this however has nothing to do with the topic either blah blah blah .... i saw that paul burrel advert with thingys tune (is it benga) like WTF is that!!!! someone is responsible for this!!!

nothings 'wrong' with being middle class...i myself would class myself as such if i had to say....it's just odd that these things become synonymous with said demographic....

it was just a questiong as i said...so what does it achieve?

do you think anyone that didn't already agree with you vehemently in the first place changes their minds having seen you did a march?

do you think the powers that be give a shit?

it achieves nothing imho

firky · Post by **firky** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:16 am

Because......... BIG SWEEPING STATEMENT AHOY: middle class people read the guardian with a sneering faux superiority that they're better than most. they're the kind which say, "I am not racist but...", they're the type that alleviates their guilt of owning a SUV to drive to the kids to school by buying an organic draw fucking string re-usable carrier bag. they're the kind that read the daily mail and believe it. they're the kind who see poverty as being the person's fault - "they didn't stick in at school," they keep the poor poor, the rich rich and they'd rather see an erosion of civil liberties and the introduction of draconian laws, to give them peace of mind, than to live in a free state.

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:24 am

Firky wrote:Because......... BIG SWEEPING STATEMENT AHOY: [...] they're the kind which say, "I am not racist but...", they're the type that [...] they're the kind that read the daily mail and believe it. they're the kind who see poverty as being the person's fault - "they didn't stick in at school," they keep the poor poor, the rich rich and they'd rather see an erosion of civil liberties and the introduction of draconian laws, to give them peace of mind, than to live in a free state.

that sounds more like the upper classes to me. middle class people are generally the ones who make an enormous song and dance about overseas issues that they don't fully understand while completely ignoring injustices and hardship right on their doorstep that they could actually change

the Guardian Syndrome and organic carrier bags are spot on though

*

argh tr0tsky put a space in your 'arrrrrgh'! it's fucking up the formatting!

firky · Post by **firky** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:29 am

I love this, thrown to the lions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/blog/2 ... /skinsblog

Read the comments.

pk- · Post by **pk-** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:32 am

last comment lol

MCbuffalo

14 Feb 08, 10:26pm

Buffalo widdy lockstop, brock em up fully job lot

check wide raving crew i hit dem safe seen lock down mack up

thailand ur time will come, going out to a dubstep raver, put yo fuckin hands in the air, wave em roun like u just dont care

\voice scratches like a badman

safe out

badman buffalo

firky · Post by **firky** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:37 am

I know

magma · Post by **magma** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:01 am

doomtube wrote:Magma if the question about the signature was to me... its a quote from the "evil dead" one of the finest films ever made. Making utterly fantastic use of porridge and mushy peas!!!

Ahh, there's a line in the Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy books and radio show that goes something like "Who disturbs us from our ancient slumber?"

The phrase "ancient slumber" can't come up that often!!

tr0tsky · Post by **tr0tsky** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:54 am

pk- wrote: argh tr0tsky put a space in your 'arrrrrgh'! it's fucking up the formatting!

Ah sorry PK.

Changed.

I'll come back to some of the points made here later on when I'm back in the office.

I'm having tea in the House of Lord and the jam they have there is there is the ONE.

Workers of the world unite and all that.

magma · Post by **magma** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:00 am

tr0tsky wrote:I'm having tea in the House of Lord and the jam they have there is there is the ONE.

Workers of the world unite and all that.

Haha. Fight the system by taking more than your share, comrade!

doomtube · Post by **doomtube** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:40 am

Yes every thing you say about the middle classes is true (mind you the Guide you get with the guardian on a saturday is the best thing about newspapers today!)

Piston, i said it before on this post, Im not sure if the marches achieve much in the way of swaying political agendas/foreign policy etc but the reason i go and have gone for many years is to show solidarity with the people who are suffering. I also think it does have the affect of raising the issue in peoples minds from an 'abstract' overseas issue (as it seems, i imagine to an awful lot of (maybe)middle class non-political people)to an issue they see as affecting people in right here.
Ultimately i honestly think being involved in and civil action and voicing an opinion is better than doing nothing....

(I think the ancient slumber thing could come from this fella maybe??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft )

tr0tsky · Post by **tr0tsky** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:58 am

I couldn't resist chipping-in from WAP:

Protests -do- achieve things. You only need to look at India, South Africa, America (when they lobbed the tea off the ships during a party in Boston or something).

Obviously there is the question of tactics and A-B marches. Does an angry, loud walk through central London on a cold January saturday leave the Israeli state fearful of it's life? I doubt it.

People realise this, and this is partialy why people it kicked off. People wanted to do something direct to stop the suffering, either by occupying the embassy, trying to hurt the profits of a key supporter of Zionism (re: the Starbucks being done over) or by making the biggest public order disturbance they can.

For me, it's important that people voice their anger, to come together in one place to show a united front. I am so angry at what's happening that there was no question about it, I wanted to walk the streets shouting at the representatives of the state that's carrying out this slaughter.

And guess what: people in Gaza see what's happening. If one child laying limbless, parentless, homeless on a hospital bed sees hundereds of thousands of people marching far far away and it gives him the strenght to recover and fight the brutal oppression than my job is done.

As for the middle class, did you conduct a socio-economic survey of those that attended?

doomtube · Post by **doomtube** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:09 am

tr0tsky wrote:I couldn't resist chipping-in from WAP:

Protests -do- achieve things. You only need to look at India, South Africa, America (when they lobbed the tea off the ships during a party in Boston or something).

Obviously there is the question of tactics and A-B marches. Does an angry, loud walk through central London on a cold January saturday leave the Israeli state fearful of it's life? I doubt it.

People realise this, and this is partialy why people it kicked off. People wanted to do something direct to stop the suffering, either by occupying the embassy, trying to hurt the profits of a key supporter of Zionism (re: the Starbucks being done over) or by making the biggest public order disturbance they can.

For me, it's important that people voice their anger, to come together in one place to show a united front. I am so angry at what's happening that there was no question about it, I wanted to walk the streets shouting at the representatives of the state that's carrying out this slaughter.

And guess what: people in Gaza see what's happening. If one child laying limbless, parentless, homeless on a hospital bed sees hundereds of thousands of people marching far far away and it gives him the strenght to recover and fight the brutal oppression than my job is done.

As for the middle class, did you conduct a socio-economic survey of those that attended?

I AGREE 100% WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY!!
And i am sick to fucking death of hearing the same old 'middle class smuggness' dribble being rolled out!!!
I have to say though Max from the Guardian is an utter TOOL and his ilk are the worse kind of twat, but they have a right to be angry about this situation like any one else.

magma · Post by **magma** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:14 am

Historically, the Middle Classes have always been an important part of democracy. In fact, the rise of a Middle Class is one of the things that is most likely to push a nation towards democracy and freedom of speech - those that are wealthy enough so that they have spare time, yet not comfortable enough so that they don't care about changing things. This is a unique situation to be in - the real working class are often simply too busy to be bothered with protests.

It's long been a tactic of absolute leaders to try and make sure the Middle Classes don't rise up. There is a growing Middle Class in China and it's leading to all kinds of free speech issues for the government - it'll be really interesting to see how it pans out.

It was the middle classes that spearheaded the civil rights movement (It was Dr MLK, remember), it was the middle classes who spearheaded Suffrage (Emmeline Pankhurst was the daughter of a Barrister) and the trend continues to this day.

So before people bemoan all the Guardian reading, university going, Trustafarians.... have a little think about your history. Without them, the working classes would possibly still be much more subjugated than they are.

tr0tsky's right. Protests DO achieve things. They achieve BIG things and the examples above are a stark reminder. Not all protests succeed, but having a voice of dissent out there is far better than not having one. What worries me is that, as with all things, in order to get the numbers, you have to dumb down, until you end up with 50,000 people marching through London chanting "We are all antiwar, we are all Hezbollah" at a peace rally.

london march 10th january

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