Change?

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surface_tension
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Change?

Post by surface_tension » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:08 pm

Believe it! Less than a week and he's already bending his own rules. Now you see it, now you don't.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/ ... 58932.aspx
Obama admin gives waiver for Lynn
Posted: Friday, January 23, 2009 5:24 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: White House, Obama WH Transition

From NBC's Ken Strickland
The Obama administration has given an ethics waiver for Bill Lynn, a Defense Department nominee who is a former lobbyist.

In a written statement released moments ago, Armed Service Committee Chairman Carl Levin said the administration "has removed an obstacle to the confirmation of Bill Lynn to be Deputy Secretary of Defense by waiving the provisions of President Obama's Executive Order on Ethics Commitments that would have precluded Mr. Lynn's service."

*** UPDATE *** Yesterday, Levin said he would have to delay Lynn's confirmation process because as a former defense lobbyist for Raytheon, Lynn's service would conflict with the Administration's new ethics rules. Those rules prohibit former lobbyist from working in the area they once lobbied, unless a waiver is given.

Even with the waiver, Levin said today the committee "will continue to insist that Mr. Lynn comply with a strict set of ethics rules... including the requirement to recuse himself, for a period of one year, from any decisions involving his prior employer, unless specifically authorized to participate by an appropriate ethics official."

The move immediately drew criticism from Sen. John McCain, the top Republican on the Armed Services Committee. "I am disappointed in President Obama's decision to waive the 'revolving door' provisions of the executive order for Mr. Bill Lynn," he said in a written statement. "While I applaud the President's action to implement new, more stringent ethical rules, I had hoped he would not find it necessary to waive them so soon."

McCain also said he would need to ask Lynn "to clarify for the record what matters and decisions will require his recusal" before he decided to support his confirmation.
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whygohome10
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Post by whygohome10 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:21 pm

it kinda just makes me ask the question why???

why cant you just be legit, is it really and truely THAT hard to be legit???

surface tension - why do politicians continuously let us down?

do they all really just hate us and want us all to suffer?

i dont get it....

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Post by stapleface » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:24 pm

he makes the rules, surely it can't be that hard to follow them.
still, i do prefer him to bush.
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Post by vision » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:27 pm

do you not understand that obama doesn't make any decision. he is told what to do by the companies that invested millions of $ in his party.
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Post by surface_tension » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:45 pm

vision wrote:do you not understand that obama doesn't make any decision. he is told what to do by the companies that invested millions of $ in his party.
Quoted for accuracy.
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Post by stapleface » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:46 pm

shit.

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Post by ikarai » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:07 am

he is now deputy defense secretary.

right, he was a lobbyist for raytheon. although they are a hardcore constituent of the us miliatary industrial complex, he is now bound by obama's new ethical standards imposed upon all white house & administrative officials.

i can see why you would object to an ironmonger being appointed to such a role.

yet its quite clear that his expertise in military matters give him an edge over other candidates
The Secretary is appointed by the President with the approval of the Senate, and is a member of the Cabinet. By statute (10 U.S.C. § 113) the secretary must be a civilian who has not served in the active component of the armed forces for at least 10 years.[2] The Secretary of Defense is sixth in the presidential line of succession.
he is answerable to the secretary of defense as were his predecessors. he's in what can be described as an advisory post, at best. he will not be making decisions.

if you read around it's very clear that they have made an exception in this case, with a view to prove themselves by upholding the standards now set for the administration. the concept of a waiver was laid down with the principles they intend to uphold. this is the first; it may be the last.

he was touted for the position a while back, and they have tried to dovetail both the implementation of new ethical standards with what they perceive as the wisest, safest choice for any particular role.

read this for a slightly more balanced view:

http://www.azstarnet.com/business/275119

once he starts actually breaking his own laws, not adhering to the inherent provisions for exception within them, let me know. give this a fucking chance.

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Post by surface_tension » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:21 am

AZ? No thanks.

The point is, and Obama has echoed this with his words, if not his actions... we should follow the rules, and the laws, especially when it is hard. Those standards and the way we uphold them will be judged by the entire world. Our "greatness" relies upon our integrity. And we have none, so he should be working above and beyond the rules and regulations. And when you set them, you don't bend them at all.
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Post by ikarai » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:08 pm

ok, well that was posted as a counterpoint to your alarmist bull. rahrah obama doesn't care about gaza rahrah obama didn't arrest the bush administration and have them executed on day one rahrah obama is gonna kill all the black babies. for fucks sake.

here's some sources that give pretty much the same info

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation ... 6668.story

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 6860.story

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/23/opini ... ynn&st=cse

people are rightfully critical: but where do you get off condemning this new administration to hell before they've hardly had a chance to do anything?

so far he has waived the lobbyist rule for Bill Lynn and Bill Corr. Corr, who was an anti-smoking lobbyist and campaigned for young peoples awareness of the dangers of tobacco. he's been apointed to the health department. yeah he sounds like a real fucking menace.

as an aside, maybe you could post a decent source for you claim in the other thread that obama will be funding forced abortions? well? oh right, there isn't one outside of the well balanced journalistic resource that is alex jones' 'prison planet'.

you come over so high and mighty, its actually unreal. if i actually cared what you thought, i'd get worked up. but you are seemingly so out of touch with reality, i'm only really doing this to highlight how ridiculous and pathethic you are being. so ready to leap in shouting "i told you so!" that you can't see any positive aspect to what is a massive, monumentally significant moment that is happening right now. even if it is only a symbol - and he is a symbol - the election of barack obama WILL change the world.

here we have a guy, a president who was a civil rights activist, a professor of constitutional law, a community worker, a democratic senator. a guy who clearly feels the weight of responsibility right now. can you imagine the compromises, the things he has had to do that perhaps he is not 100% comfortable with, to get where he is now, so he can have a chance to make a difference? No because all you see is your absolutist analysis. the fact is, someone like you will never get the chance to make a difference, and not least because all you do is piss and moan.

he is articulate, intelligent and perhaps most importantly, he listens. he is surrounding himself with a true cross section of your society from which he intends to find the best route. granted, he seems hesitant and perhaps a little intimidated but i challenge anyone to prove to me that he another fucking puppet like bush. his balls may steel up but the fact is, they haven't even gotten started yet. the reasonable choice is - the only choice right now is - let's wait and see.

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Post by theevilgirl » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:31 pm

whygohome10 wrote:it kinda just makes me ask the question why???

why cant you just be legit, is it really and truely THAT hard to be legit???

surface tension - why do politicians continuously let us down?

do they all really just hate us and want us all to suffer?

i dont get it....
its not hard....they feed into the power tho...and they get greedy.

i think of the government as a huge high school...and everyone wants to win the popularity contest within their clique, by doing whatever it takes, the only difference depends on which clique they want to be a part of.

i hope Obama is part of the cool kids club. :)

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Post by nousd » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:46 pm

The world is perfect,
not because it is ideal
but because it meets
no-one's expectations.

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Post by stenchman » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:50 pm

whygohome10 wrote:it kinda just makes me ask the question why???

why cant you just be legit, is it really and truely THAT hard to be legit???

surface tension - why do politicians continuously let us down?

do they all really just hate us and want us all to suffer?

i dont get it....
because the support of big business and powerful people is more important than keeping the average joe happy/safe in the knowledge that they aint gonna get fucked over.

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Post by djshiva » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:52 pm

Not pleased. Wrote a pissy letter to the White House last night.

If nothing else, this is a dumb political move, because it pisses off his supporters and gives the Repubs ammunition (even if they are all hypocrites for pointing fingers in this case).

I am still happy with a lot of his early moves, but this is dumb.
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Post by surface_tension » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:50 pm

Ikarai wrote:so ready to leap in shouting "i told you so!" that you can't see any positive aspect to what is a massive, monumentally significant moment that is happening right now. even if it is only a symbol - and he is a symbol - the election of barack obama WILL change the world.

here we have a guy, a president who was a civil rights activist, a professor of constitutional law, a community worker, a democratic senator. a guy who clearly feels the weight of responsibility right now. can you imagine the compromises, the things he has had to do that perhaps he is not 100% comfortable with, to get where he is now, so he can have a chance to make a difference? No because all you see is your absolutist analysis. the fact is, someone like you will never get the chance to make a difference, and not least because all you do is piss and moan.

he is articulate, intelligent and perhaps most importantly, he listens. he is surrounding himself with a true cross section of your society from which he intends to find the best route. granted, he seems hesitant and perhaps a little intimidated but i challenge anyone to prove to me that he another fucking puppet like bush. his balls may steel up but the fact is, they haven't even gotten started yet. the reasonable choice is - the only choice right now is - let's wait and see.
He has now taken twice, because the first time they fucked it up, the oath to defend the CONSTITUTION. He had to say the Oath word for word for the same reason he has to protect the Constitution WORD FOR WORD. That reason, is because picking and choosing which standards to uphold is what gets us shit like the Patriot Act, the loss of Habeas Corpus, etc... Let's NOT wait, and say we did. If you don't stay on his every single move, every single day, we'll be begging the next President to prosecute his crimes. And yes, not fulfilling his oath is a fucking crime. So when he violated his own executive order, he committed an impeachable offense. He didn't sign a new executive order waving this guy, he wrote a note to the congress saying the guy gets a pass. That's nothing official, by any stretch. Rather than calling for his head on a stick, like I normally would(ask anyone who knows me, I hate both parties equally and I'm not some shill for the Republican Neo-Con's.), I simply pointed out his hypocrisy.

Right now, we're waiting on prosecutions that will never come because we "wait and give Bush a chance"

and "Wait for a Democratic Congress"

and then we "wait for Obama to prosecute"

Day 1 should have involved arrests. Why doesn't it? Simply put, if he holds Bush to those standards, he's going to be held to the same standards. If you would compromise on your values, they aren't your values. Plain and simple. He was elected because he said he could handle it. If it cannot handle it, if he cannot fight the power, so to speak... he should be removed from office via any legal means necessary. Failing to uphold the oath he took(twice) is a pretty damn good reason. And you don't need to wait and see if he will do it... he just did it. End of discussion in my estimation. And newsflash... I don't have to give any public official the benefit of the doubt. Quite the opposite. Our duty as American's is to give them no leeway. It's to punish them every time they get out of line, just like we would any one of our hired hands. Politicians deserve zero leeway, zero respect given for free. You earn respect in politics by doing the hard stuff, making the hard decisions... to quote your own buddy "even when it hurts"

In this case, there are any number of people who could have been named. That position dude would be taking is a position that more or less involves making sure Government defense contracts are fair... and a guy who worked until recently for a company that HAS THOSE CONTRACTS is not an objective party. Welcome to Bush 2.0. This is a post 9/11 level of Good Will Obama has here... squander away.
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