2012

[alien pimp]

Found myself getting wrapped up in this 2012/new world order speculation a while back. Then realised that if im so quick to believe such things and become paranoid then there must some underlying issues with myself that I need to address.

yeah, like how much ritaline and fluoride have you ingested

[whineo]

Found myself getting wrapped up in this 2012/new world order speculation a while back. Then realised that if im so quick to believe such things and become paranoid then there must some underlying issues with myself that I need to address.

yeah, like how much ritaline and fluoride have you ingested

not sure I understand what you mean by that?

[alien pimp]

Found myself getting wrapped up in this 2012/new world order speculation a while back. Then realised that if im so quick to believe such things and become paranoid then there must some underlying issues with myself that I need to address.

yeah, like how much ritaline and fluoride have you ingested

not sure I understand what you mean by that?

i know
where do you live?

[slim]

Hold up, what exactly are we claiming Fluoride does now?

[alien pimp]

i don't claim anything, figure it out yourself, you drink it

[ladubstepnostra]

History repeats itself! The world has been going through major changes, humans and living organisms have come and gone...who's ready?

Watch for 2012 recordings out of Guatemala, recording present history inna analog bass form, brought to you by Mictlan's founder and LADN's visionaries.

[slim]

Actually i don't. Worst i've heard from fluorinated water is dental fluorosis, will make your teeth look pretty gnarly, but not going to fuck with your thoughts too much, if you have heart or kidney problems too much is probably going to spoil your day, and obviously too much of anything in high enough doses will kill you, but the level of fluorination in water is fairly minimal, and the coverage is fairly limited in most countries.

If it were causing any serious problems, there would be massive health discrepancies between areas with it and without it, which would be picked up on by epidemiologists fairly quickly.

[alien pimp]

Actually i don't. Worst i've heard from fluorinated water is dental fluorosis, will make your teeth look pretty gnarly, but not going to fuck with your thoughts too much, if you have heart or kidney problems too much is probably going to spoil your day, and obviously too much of anything in high enough doses will kill you, but the level of fluorination in water is fairly minimal, and the coverage is fairly limited in most countries.

If it were causing any serious problems, there would be massive health discrepancies between areas with it and without it, which would be picked up on by epidemiologists fairly quickly.

that's all you found out after doing a bit of research or is it what one of the 6 media majors told you?

where do you live?

[slim]

Actually i don't. Worst i've heard from fluorinated water is dental fluorosis, will make your teeth look pretty gnarly, but not going to fuck with your thoughts too much, if you have heart or kidney problems too much is probably going to spoil your day, and obviously too much of anything in high enough doses will kill you, but the level of fluorination in water is fairly minimal, and the coverage is fairly limited in most countries.

If it were causing any serious problems, there would be massive health discrepancies between areas with it and without it, which would be picked up on by epidemiologists fairly quickly.

that's all you found out after doing a bit of research or is it what one of the 6 media majors told you?

where do you live?

The first bit is what i remember from looking this up a while back in a toxicology book, the epidemiology thing was pretty much common sense.

I live in London, East to be precise. No fluoride in our water, as far as my water company's website claims, but if they are lying i could fairly easily test for it.

[alien pimp]

exactly as i expected.
you drink it everyday and you don't know nothing about it, but you jump to conclusions

see if you belong to any of these:
The following UK utilities companies fluoridate their water: Anglian Water Services Ltd., Northumbrian Water Ltd., South Staffordshire Water plc, Severn Trent plc and United Utilities Water plc. Earlier schemes were undertaken in the Health Authority areas of Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire, Birmingham and the Black Country, Cheshire and Merseyside, County Durham and Tees Valley, Cumbria and Lancashire, North and East Yorkshire and Northern Lincolnshire, Northumberland, Tyne and Wear, Shropshire and Staffordshire, Trent, and West Midlands South whereby fluoridation was introduced progressively in the years between 1964 and 1988

[slim]

Thames Water actually. And like i said, fluorine is not a particularly hard thing to test for, there's papers you can dip in water to find if it is present, if people were going to poison the water supplies, something more subtle would probably be a better idea.

And plus epidemiologists are pretty much there to relate health to areas, in something as divided as fluoridation (some areas have it, some don't) any serious issues would stand out like a sore thumb

[alien pimp]

i can easily contradict every word you say about fluoride, but you won't believe me because if you would have critical thinking and information you would know it already

and the only way you can contradict me is independent research

btw, did you ever do that test or you believed your company?

[slim]

Critical thinking is exactly what i am doing, feel free to contradict. As for independent research if i can get hold of some papers to test my water for fluoride i probably will.

I am genuinely interested in your points, the only things i have said about flouride are:

It's relatively harmless at the doses in fluorinated areas.

Not every area is fluorinated

Fluoride ions are detectable

Any significant difference in health between areas with it and without it would be detectable.

These to me are fairly self-evident, so i would be interested to know why you think not.

[alien pimp]

i've just stressed you have strong opinios but no grounds and nothing to support these but a vague memory from some textbook.
about the textbooks, did you ever think who gives schools the right to teach or how many schools teach you to question the authorities?

that's not the typical attitude of an interested person, you didn't even check the handiest things, like wikipedia

[slim]

i've just stressed you have strong opinios but no grounds and nothing to support these but a vague memory from some textbook.
about the textbooks, did you ever think who gives schools the right to teach or how many schools teach you to question the authorities?

that's not the typical attitude of an interested person, you didn't even check the handiest things, like wikipedia

I did check wikipedia, which is far from gospel truth. Handy, yes but not to be taken as absolute 100% fact. That said it does back up a lot of what i've said, that at high enough doses it is massively toxic, but that it is not harmful at the levels put in water.

And where i study we are taught that evidence is king, and also taught how to critically appraise that evidence, as the fundamentals of science and medicine involve criticism of ideas and determining how valuable or reliable certain information is, that's what peer review is for, and that's what meta-analyses are for. Although i will not claim either is perfect.

[whineo]

So we're drinking Flouride, showering/bathing in it, its in the food we eat etc...
it's highly toxic and lowers our IQ from the moment we start drinking it as a child. All to make us more susceptible to the government's methods of mind control?

[alien pimp]

@ slim:

not the hosting site is the truth authority, but the truth itself
wiki doesn't say it investigated anything and you have to believe their words, they rather structure information from sources that they provide and you can check up on them
so i don't care what wikipedia is, but what are the facts they present and what are the proves

if you would really want to find out things, you would've raised an eyebrow reading phrases like:

'Despite support by public health organizations and authorities, efforts to introduce water fluoridation meet considerable opposition whenever it is proposed.[15] Since fluoridation's inception, proponents have argued for scientific optimism and faith in experts, while opponents have drawn on distrust of experts and unease about medicine and science.[45] Controversies include disputes over fluoridation's benefits and the strength of the evidence basis for these benefits, the difficulty of identifying harms, legal issues over whether water fluoridation is a medicine, and the ethics of mass intervention.[18] Opposition campaigns involve newspaper articles, talk radio, and public forums. Media reporters are often poorly equipped to explain the scientific issues, and are motivated to present controversy regardless of the underlying scientific merits. Internet websites, which are increasingly used by the public for health information, contain a wide range of material about fluoridation ranging from factual to fraudulent, with a disproportionate percentage opposed to fluoridation. '

that should normally raise at least 2 questions:
1. what the other side says (you declared you don't know)?
2. why if the internet opposes so much to it, i didn't know about it? (maybe subsequently: what media represents better all sides in a controversy?)

further research should make you ask why many countries banned water fluoridation, some even after experimenting it? are those countries dumber?

after that with a bit of googe you could find out things like chinese say fluoride makes you dumb, it's the main ingredient in prozac and its the most highly-reactive and chemically unstable of ALL existing chemical elements. Fluorine is not found by itself in nature, because it is so unstable that it chemically combines--violently, in many cases--with practically any other element. Fluorine has the strongest effect of all the halogens. Fluorine is one of the major ingredients in the controversial psycho-active psychiatric drug PROZAC (Fluoxetene Hydrochloride), and also in deadly Sarin military nerve gas, U.S. designation GB. (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl Fluoride). and IT ACTUALLY DOES NO GOOD TO TEETH AND BONES AFTER YOU FINISHED GROWING (if ever)

so, i'm sorry, but you can't qualify as what you pretend you are

http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ ... getal.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridati ... rated11-17

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?recor ... 1&page=104

[alien pimp]

and why whineo knows and slim doesn't, he's just loud about it?

[dubluke]

relax dude its just fucking flouride

[djelements]

So we're drinking Flouride, showering/bathing in it, its in the food we eat etc...
it's highly toxic and lowers our IQ from the moment we start drinking it as a child. All to make us more susceptible to the government's methods of mind control?

Something like that I think.