ANYONE FANCY FLYING A FEW PLANES INTO A VERY LARGE BUILDING?

[municiple]

I think it is good to have open debates about these things...

I agree, but in a way that is sensitive. As bullshit as all of the following activities have been, 9/11 was a really intense day that was not so much about #'s of dead as it was about change, and the knowledge that things were going to change alot, and the fear that change brings. I think this fear and change has made an impact througout the world, I know that I have felt it quite a bit in China where I spend alot of time. I feel for the people who died, lost people, etc. in 9/11 as well as every other time I see or hear about these things. It is not a competition.

[metalboxproducts]

nah worries mate i actually know you're safe because boomnoise has told me so and his word is truth.

.

Did boom say that. Thats nice

[pk-]

Well then, blame the media. It's not the victims' fault that they've been made martyrs....and nor does the heavy media attention somehow make the tragedy trivial.

i wasn't trying to trivialise it in the slightest, and i was only talking about the media, nobody else.

over a week of programmes and mentions in the news smacks of short-sighted arrogance, though.

[ytee]

Just wondering

i don't care where you're from, what you've been through or what religion you follow.... you don't make jokes about people dying or people that are gone already.

yeah man, that's some tasteless shit right there.

[spaceboy]

dont get me wrong seckle...i dont have any hate for americans...as u know i work for a highly succesful american firm...employing plenty of your nations capital...making big institutions in your land very rich.

the media is critical in the development and provocation of this whole story.

and a religious type/colour is being victimised day by day - u wouldnt even begin to understand what it feels like to see/read/be told how potentially bad/evil your people are etc, without any proper understanding of their culture, beliefs and dreams. and furthermore rulers of the nations you (I) pledge your (I) allegiance to, taking the same really obtuse view. i.e. blair...he's done more to destroy multiculturalism/cultural plurality then any other PM we've had.

i whole heartedly abhor those negative, unsuccesful fools who resort to fanaticism and bombs etc as an excuse (kids living in the west who become suicide bombers/fighters) they disgust me. they deserve to be shot. i have alot more sympathy for those fighters out in the middle east who really have lived in shite...i.e. palestinians...those guys really have never seen/felt peace or happiness. ever.

and i am deeply upset for those poor, innocent, victims all over the world who have died or lost their loved ones. those who have absolutely fuck all to do with any of this...but suffer.

there's two sides to the story...dont silence out those who have no voice.

[marsyas]

Or blame the people who have overly sentimental reactions to it..

With all due respect to anyone on here who was affected by 9/11.And lets face it we all have been in some way or other. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth the amount of attention it gets, right or wrong. If you consider the miner footnotes other "news stories" get. In term of actuel dead people it's really miner.
It does seem that the media values a western life more dearly than the tens of thousands who have died since.

Should we have Iraqi or Afghani dubsteppers, I'm sure we'd stretch our sympathies to them too. But as far as I know we don't. We do however have a great deal of US peeps on here though, who by and large seem to be pretty decent folk. Trying to score political points from folks who may well have lost friends and/or family in that incident is not a good thing to try. If you want to attack foreign policy do it, but don't piss on peoples memories.

thank you !!

[search]

Space boy "i.e. blair...he's done more to destroy multiculturalism/cultural plurality then any other PM we've had."

Yeah and the self segregating muslim society is completley blameless. Lets have it right....

[shonky]

Space boy "i.e. blair...he's done more to destroy multiculturalism/cultural plurality then any other PM we've had."

Yeah and the self segregating muslim society is completley blameless. Lets have it right....

Yeah, although it goes against my generally liberal sensibilities, I think we have to acknowledge that secularism and islam aren't really compatible in many ways. The call for Sharia law in certain parts of britain with large muslim contingents is deeply worrying to me.

It does make me wonder why when we allow folks in to escape persecution, torture and death in their countries, they start kicking off against western decadence - what did they expect?

Thought this might be of interest

http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments ... 39,00.html

[random trio]

theres no excuse for wot them mentalists...sorry fundamentalist are doing, there scum. plain as that.

there attacking countrys and INNOCENT people that have helped to give them and there families a better life. wots that about.

[shonky]

I would like to point out though that my opinion on this is anti-religious zealotry, not against arabs or asians in this country (many of which I count among my friends through the years).

I think the problem is that if we don't have a proper debate about this, Nick Griffin and his gang of shitbags are going to have a field day.

[obiwan]

It is hard not to react against the overexposure and analysis of Sep 11th; just watch how Giuliani and Bush used it for their own causes in speeches. But no one should take the piss out of the 2nd WTC attack because no one knows who did it. I have to admit something I have now recognised as a shameful dimension of my personality. I cheered loudly when I first saw the "planes crash into the buildings" because my background has encouraged me to be highly critical of British and US foreign policy (white, middle class, ex hippy/beatnik parents), and I really did see it as some kind of revenge on America for all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of the stars and stripes across the world; In the US itself, Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Iran, , Israel, Iraq... I am not like my parents and in my youth and in this age of ignorance I really did and sometimes do still believe that violence can quell violence; NOT the case!
Even if, and its a huge if (passports with Muslim names were found in the ash of the ruins when the authorities can't even find either of the black boxes in the planes, and a van was found with a Qu'ran and flight manuals come on now, eff off!!), terrorists from an Islamic background actually DID carry out the attacks, it didn't exactly play right into their hands, six years on and the ancient intellectual centre of the Islamic world is still occupied by hostile foreign troops who are completely brainwashed by patriotic anti-everyone else bullshit, and whose reasoning is almost always centred around the war on terror, a baby whose daddy stepped onto the scene on that evil day 9/11. That is one line of thinking another is that that day was evil because this whole post-millenium agenda has been planned, prophesised and engineered towards since Biblical times, the symbolism of the two towers, that represent Jachin and Boaz, two of the three towers which are symbolic in freemasonry, and which depict the devil that Muslims hurl stones at when they practice Hajj in Mecca, the date of attack which not only has many occult numerological meanings, but is also the number of the emergency services in the states. The rastafarian prediction that the beginning of the end of the world will occur when two sevens clash, thought to be 1977, but is actually the seventh month which in ancient times was September, and boeing seven five seven and seven six seven which literally crashed into the buildings. This points towards the ideology that 9/11 was a media event, a circus for the world to see, that advances the agenda through cause and effect, of the new world order to new levels. Many Americans even believe this, Ordo ab Chao is the method by which a governemnt or entity effectively plays both sides of a chess game for two moves, attacking and defending in order to justify the respnding attack to the public, pearl harbour may well have been much of the same thing, and the final move in that game resulted in a mushroom cloud.

[pk-]

there attacking countrys and INNOCENT people that have helped to give them and there families a better life. wots that about.

what baffles me about them is why they don't go after military/political targets. the more you target & terrify the general populace, the more you alienate and make enemies of those who might otherwise have been sympathetic to your cause, and the more like they are to blindly follow the government into whatever knee-jerk reaction they call for.

attack only governmental or military targets and you're going to find much less agreement to rushed amendments to the criminal justice bill (or, at least, much more objection than there is now).

fair enough whitehall or chelsea barracks are harder to hit than packed commuter trains, but then if you don't care whether or not you die why would that matter?

[pk-]

give me an AK and a beard and i'll give you a jihad

i'd be an amazing mujhadeen

[metalboxproducts]

It is hard not to react against the overexposure and analysis of Sep 11th; just watch how Giuliani and Bush used it for their own causes in speeches. But no one should take the piss out of the 2nd WTC attack because no one knows who did it. I have to admit something I have now recognised as a shameful dimension of my personality. I cheered loudly when I first saw the "planes crash into the buildings" because my background has encouraged me to be highly critical of British and US foreign policy (white, middle class, ex hippy/beatnik parents), and I really did see it as some kind of revenge on America for all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of the stars and stripes across the world; In the US itself, Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Iran, , Israel, Iraq... I am not like my parents and in my youth and in this age of ignorance I really did and sometimes do still believe that violence can quell violence; NOT the case!
Even if, and its a huge if (passports with Muslim names were found in the ash of the ruins when the authorities can't even find either of the black boxes in the planes, and a van was found with a Qu'ran and flight manuals come on now, eff off!!), terrorists from an Islamic background actually DID carry out the attacks, it didn't exactly play right into their hands, six years on and the ancient intellectual centre of the Islamic world is still occupied by hostile foreign troops who are completely brainwashed by patriotic anti-everyone else bullshit, and whose reasoning is almost always centred around the war on terror, a baby whose daddy stepped onto the scene on that evil day 9/11. That is one line of thinking another is that that day was evil because this whole post-millenium agenda has been planned, prophesised and engineered towards since Biblical times, the symbolism of the two towers, that represent Jachin and Boaz, two of the three towers which are symbolic in freemasonry, and which depict the devil that Muslims hurl stones at when they practice Hajj in Mecca, the date of attack which not only has many occult numerological meanings, but is also the number of the emergency services in the states. The rastafarian prediction that the beginning of the end of the world will occur when two sevens clash, thought to be 1977, but is actually the seventh month which in ancient times was September, and the two boeing seven four sevens which literally crashed into the buildings. This points towards the ideology that 9/11 was a media event, a circus for the world to see, that advances the agenda through cause and effect, of the new world order to new levels. Many Americans even believe this, Ordo ab Chao is the method by which a governemnt or entity effectively plays both sides of a chess game for two moves, attacking and defending in order to justify the respnding attack to the public, pearl harbour may well have been much of the same thing, and the final move in that game resulted in a mushroom cloud.

The planes were not 747's.

[obiwan]

there attacking countrys and INNOCENT people that have helped to give them and there families a better life. wots that about.

what baffles me about them is why they don't go after military/political targets. the more you target & terrify the general populace, the more you alienate and make enemies of those who might otherwise have been sympathetic to your cause, and the more like they are to blindly follow the government into whatever knee-jerk reaction they call for.

attack only governmental or military targets and you're going to find much less agreement to rushed amendments to the criminal justice bill (or, at least, much more objection than there is now).

fair enough whitehall or chelsea barracks are harder to hit than packed commuter trains, but then if you don't care whether or not you die why would that matter?

waste quote, how do you know it aint MI5 bruv?

[obiwan]

[quote="metalboxproductsThe planes were not 747's. [/quote]

I know I just changed it, doesn't make a blind bit of difference though does it pedant?

[metalboxproducts]

there attacking countrys and INNOCENT people that have helped to give them and there families a better life. wots that about.

what baffles me about them is why they don't go after military/political targets. the more you target & terrify the general populace, the more you alienate and make enemies of those who might otherwise have been sympathetic to your cause, and the more like they are to blindly follow the government into whatever knee-jerk reaction they call for.

attack only governmental or military targets and you're going to find much less agreement to rushed amendments to the criminal justice bill (or, at least, much more objection than there is now).

fair enough whitehall or chelsea barracks are harder to hit than packed commuter trains, but then if you don't care whether or not you die why would that matter?

Yes, but they're agenda is not to make alliances with anyone in the west. Wether that be public/politcal or milatry. It's the complete severance of ant ties what so ever with the west.

[obiwan]

You lot might think i'm a paronoid fantasist, and I am. But if you look at all the facts in the big picture I think people are missing all of the hidden signals in the events of the last six years.

[metalboxproducts]

I was hoping for something like this. Nice little debate based on paranoia/ heresay and speculation.

[metalboxproducts]

OH IT'S SUCH A LONG THING TO GET INTO HERE ISN'T IT. LETS FACE IT THE ONLY "FACTS" ARE WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD. THESE FACTS ARE OPEN TO INTERPRITATION. AND TEND TO CHANGE DEPENDING ON WHO'S INTERPRITATION YOU CHOOSE TO BELIEVE...