Legend4ry's sub bass tutorial

[Moxxiedubstep]

Oi this threads supposed to be helpful, leave your moaning and egos at the door, in respect of those trying to help.

Please?

Of course, no ego here .

But he knows of joseph fourier ,yet says what i mentioned was wrong... -_-.

Guess its that "break in the new guy" part of the forum eh?

[staticcast]

We were talking about putting out sines out of the osc, EQs are out of the question in this case... what does the pitch have to do with anything?
By the way setting massive quality to "ultra" actually creates MORE harmonics on the same sine.

I never mentioned EQ'ing or anything about "ultra" considering i always run "eco" . The pitch being lowered goes below the PWM duty cycle/range of operation which leaves its root operation of a sine. Scroll up. I already explained everything. And a low pass filter "FILTERS" out those harmonics. check that link. find info on PWM

You be talkin nonsense bro. This has nothing at all to do with PWM.

lol wait what ? do you know how pulse width modulation even works? it regulates the amplitude of voltage/electricity , hence duty cycle...... im not going to bother going in depth. im sure you can research.

"The simplest way to generate a PWM signal is the intersective method, which requires only a sawtooth or a triangle waveform (easily generated using a simple oscillator) and a comparator. When the value of the reference signal (the green sine wave in figure 2) is more than the modulation waveform (blue), the PWM signal (magenta) is in the high state, otherwise it is in the low state."

reference signal = root operation . all waves are based on them.

LOL @ you telling me what i dont know, When i apply these concepts and methods in my music.... smh -_-

You still be talking nonsense bro. A sine wave generated by a softsynth has nothing to do with PWM. PWM is a cheap and efficient way of delivering a certain amount of average power by switching the power supply on and off very quickly, so that over a longer time period the average power works out to what you want it to be. You CAN generate signals like this (actually this is the basis of how a lot of D/A converters work), but in the digital domain it's a totally roundabout way of doing it (and you can take my word that no soft synth on the market is going to make a sine wave like this).

Seriously dude, this has nothing at all to do with generating a sine wave in Massive.

[Moxxiedubstep]

[/quote]

You still be talking nonsense bro. A sine wave generated by a softsynth has nothing to do with PWM. PWM is a cheap and efficient way of delivering a certain amount of average power by switching the power supply on and off very quickly, so that over a longer time period the average power works out to what you want it to be. You CAN generate signals like this (actually this is the basis of how a lot of D/A converters work), but in the digital domain it's a totally roundabout way of doing it (and you can take my word that no soft synth on the market is going to make a sine wave like this).

Seriously dude, this has nothing at all to do with generating a sine wave in Massive.[/quote]


Youre talking about field electronics.... But ok. Everyone has their own insight I guess. Sine waves come from more than just synths, or sounds for that matter.

js

[staticcast]

Youre talking about field electronics.... But ok. Everyone has their own insight I guess. Sine waves come from more than just synths, or sounds for that matter.

js

Yeah, but we're talking about synths, no? All I'm saying is that the only place you'll find PWM in a synth is if you modulate a pulse wave yourself. A sine comes from a sine generator, whether that's a numerical approximation, a wavetable or whatever.

[SunkLo]

Legend4ry this one's better:


Sub bass comes from more than just synths ya know

I lol every time I play that map, "Get ya base face on boys!"

[legend4ry]

^ Love that map

[Basic A]

My advice, render a 'clean' 'sine' out of massive and zoom waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy in so you can see each wave.... that is not a perfect sine...

fwiw... neither is the 3xOsc...

Audacity makes perfect sines... dont know many synths do though....

You do know that's just because your DAW display isn't "joining the dots" on neighbouring samples, right? I'm guessing Audacity draws a straight line between samples; that's why it looks like a perfect sine. Your audio interface gets one sample per "dot", so it doesn't make a difference to what you hear.

I just ran Massive through a spectrum analyzer and you can be damn sure it's putting out a sine wave pure enough that you'd never hear the difference...

No its not because Im looking at them on the same program dude.

Im not thick.

Even N.I. says they give every sound a 'distinct color' and yes this includes there sines. I dont use massive never wrapped my head aorund anything that wasnt on mixer modular shit, but, I know its true, and I have checked it.

Most synths do little shit to the waveform.

And when you render a REAL sine using cool edit or audacity, and compare them side by side youll know it.

That n synths all come out at different frequency too. render a '40htz' sine on massive or 3xosc, then render a real one on audacity, and check them side by side. Shits wrong.

This isnt because I cheked them on seperate programs. How stupid do I look?

[staticcast]

Even N.I. says they give every sound a 'distinct color' and yes this includes there sines. I dont use massive never wrapped my head aorund anything that wasnt on mixer modular shit, but, I know its true, and I have checked it.

Ok, true, the square waves aren't square and the saw waves aren't perfect saws, but both of those are complex wave forms whereas a sine is the most basic signal you can get, and a pure sine is a pure sine. See above -- I checked the Massive sine on an analyzer -- and there are harmonics, but only at -110dB and below. -110dB is an amplitude of 0.00001 or so, on top of a wave of amplitude 1. It's COMPLETELY negligible and inaudible, and you definitely would not be able to see the difference in the shape of the wave, let alone on a computer screen with a resolution of, like, 100 pixels per inch. CD audio and 16 bit WAV can't even represent anything below -96dB.

The Operator sine generator has no harmonics at all, presumably because it's not using a wavetable like Massive is. So both synths put out, for all intents and purposes, a pure sine wave. If you wanna debate that 3xOsc doesn't put out a pure sine wave, then fine, but the burden of proof is on you because softsynths are very good at putting out sine waves. (And because I don't have FL.)

And when you render a REAL sine using cool edit or audacity, and compare them side by side youll know it.

Sorry man, that's simply not true. What exactly do you think a softsynth's sine wave looks like when you zoom in really really close? How does it differ from the shape of a pure sine? Post a screenshot?

That n synths all come out at different frequency too. render a '40htz' sine on massive or 3xosc, then render a real one on audacity, and check them side by side. Shits wrong.

Again, sorry, but that's totally wrong dude. If there's one thing softsynths are good at, it's getting 12TET tuning right. Really.

[Steve_French]

TAL Elektro has a sick sub, no need for heavy wieghts if you just want a nice low sub, use this.

[redraven]

I personally like to add a little "flavor" to my sub by using a low sine wav doubled with a low saw wav... in my opinion it helps push it that much more, i only have the saw like 1/2 the volume of the sine but it still sound fatter...

[legend4ry]

I personally like to add a little "flavor" to my sub by using a low sine wav doubled with a low saw wav... in my opinion it helps push it that much more, i only have the saw like 1/2 the volume of the sine but it still sound fatter...

Tis a good technique, a lot of people use it.

[Snafu]

@ redraven you mean you activate a second oscillator select saw wave mix in with sine, low volume? No detuning..

@ Legend4ry you guys really get into the intestines of the subject. Thanks for this thread! I have learned a lot.

Have you guys tested the disco dsp nord rack 2? It has a sinewave as preset.. It pretty powerfull. IMO thats a pretty good sounding vst version of a nordlead.

[rawali]

I'm bumping this thread because people need to read it...

[Steve_French]

running a subthrough a comb filter is also fun especially if you wobble it first

[redraven]

@ redraven you mean you activate a second oscillator select saw wave mix in with sine, low volume? No detuning..

That's exactly what I mean.

[Snafu]

OK, I got it. What about that deep subby reece. Im mean more like the original "kevin" reece is it to be treated like a regular sub? There really isnt any high end to seperate. Sorry if its a stupid question.

[phrex]

dear legendary,
I don't expirience problems with my sub. they have power and pressure.
but one thing i really want to get, is how the bass in that track can be archieved


if you have heard this track on a big system you will surely know what i actually mean.

I tried to get to this by underlaying it with a squaresine bass, but nothing really came out of it. (it even seems that the sinewave has lost its power). after listening to the record mentioned above quite few times, i recognised that minute 0:55 or 3:46 where the bass has an immense power it's nothing else than a pure sine, true?

I rarely ask something technical in here. but this is very specific and hope you, or someone else can help me out finding the key to this powerfull bass.

[legend4ry]

wow a joker track I like !
never heard that one before.




Anyways, it seems like theres around 3 or 4 instances of layering here..A sub, somesort of distorted reese (or just a detunes synthed) and a mid range sound on top.

And at those points you said, it is just a sine cutoff/played quite high, around 80-90hz, maybe layered with something an octave below.

[SunkLo]

Square waves lack the first harmonic above the fundamental. Try using a saw if you want a beefier sound, or just layer another sine osc an octave up. Remember though. beef = mud depending on how you look at it so be careful about space in the mix.

[invaderzim]

thanks legend4ry for this awesome thread!!