Today im going to occupy st pauls to camp for the night...

[AllNightDayDream]

Real change. Right. Right down the slippery slope that the republicans were probably already on anyway.

The point must've went over your head: they shifted congress. There's a huge difference between an old school republican and a tea bagger. I would take the republicans under the clinton administration any day than these bigots.

The right politicians are always there, there will always be individual people ready to make the people's case in washington, but the problem is getting them into congress (or parliament), getting them the cash they need to make their case.

of course - why didn't i think of that? ... the only way to make politicians listen to anybody other than billionaires is for us to give them even more money!! ... finally, a battleground on which the super-rich can't beat us: £ 4 £, $ 4 $ ... genius

You can't win elections without proper funding, which is what I was talking about. It's a sad state of affairs, but the only way to change it is to get the right people in congress. Personally i'm for equal funding of either side of campaigns, and outlawing large contributions.

[bigfootspartan]

Up here in Canada I really don't know what people are at the Occupy Movements for. I can understand the States, the whole banking thing there is quite a frustrating situation.

Here however, we haven't bailed out banks. Our government hasn't had to pour too much money into things (the auto industry is one where they did), and the income gap isn't as bad. I find it hard to see where people are coming from when they simply hate people who run successful businesses (of course there are exceptions, but generally, the people in the 1% found a way to get there, and most likely benefited society on their way up).

For example, there was an article in the CBC about the guy who owns one of the new mobile carriers in Canada. Since he introduced new competition, mobile plan prices decreased by over 30%, which is good for everyone. The article talks about how that guy figures it was a bad business move to come to Canada, because we have some pretty draconian laws when it comes to internationally owned businesses, and it hasn't really showed any returns yet.

Anyways, one of the comments from the Occupy Canada movement was

"AAwwww, poor Mr Freaking Billionaire is unhappy. I feel so bad for you.

Personally I'm happy to see the screws put to some rich freak for a change. Don't like it buddy? Just go back where you came from.

Like I have time to feel sorry for a billionaire. Why is he even here at all? Are his billions not enough for him?

Take off eh."

It shows a huge lack of intelligence on any level, and I can't sympathize with those sentiments at all.

[noam]

Up here in Canada I really don't know what people are at the Occupy Movements for. I can understand the States, the whole banking thing there is quite a frustrating situation.

Here however, we haven't bailed out banks. Our government hasn't had to pour too much money into things (the auto industry is one where they did), and the income gap isn't as bad. I find it hard to see where people are coming from when they simply hate people who run successful businesses (of course there are exceptions, but generally, the people in the 1% found a way to get there, and most likely benefited society on their way up).

For example, there was an article in the CBC about the guy who owns one of the new mobile carriers in Canada. Since he introduced new competition, mobile plan prices decreased by over 30%, which is good for everyone. The article talks about how that guy figures it was a bad business move to come to Canada, because we have some pretty draconian laws when it comes to internationally owned businesses, and it hasn't really showed any returns yet.

Anyways, one of the comments from the Occupy Canada movement was

"AAwwww, poor Mr Freaking Billionaire is unhappy. I feel so bad for you.

Personally I'm happy to see the screws put to some rich freak for a change. Don't like it buddy? Just go back where you came from.

Like I have time to feel sorry for a billionaire. Why is he even here at all? Are his billions not enough for him?

Take off eh."

It shows a huge lack of intelligence on any level, and I can't sympathize with those sentiments at all.

have you read anything in the thread?

[kay]

Real change. Right. Right down the slippery slope that the republicans were probably already on anyway.

The point must've went over your head: they shifted congress. There's a huge difference between an old school republican and a tea bagger. I would take the republicans under the clinton administration any day than these bigots.

Actually, I think my point went over your head. The congresspeople who went with their agenda were, from what I gather, mostly inclined in that way already anyway. It's much simpler to shift people more radically in a direction that they are already inclined towards, than to shift people away from said direction. The tea baggers simply allowed hidden bigots to bring their bigotry out of the closet and into mainstream politics because there was now a "national" movement calling for said changes.

[magma]

They really need to take a lesson from previous successful movements

Sorry, but this cracked me up. Why on earth do you think they're Occupying if not learning from the Arab Spring?

Engage brain before telling arms to reach for keyboard.

[AllNightDayDream]

Real change. Right. Right down the slippery slope that the republicans were probably already on anyway.

The point must've went over your head: they shifted congress. There's a huge difference between an old school republican and a tea bagger. I would take the republicans under the clinton administration any day than these bigots.

Actually, I think my point went over your head. The congresspeople who went with their agenda were, from what I gather, mostly inclined in that way already anyway. It's much simpler to shift people more radically in a direction that they are already inclined towards, than to shift people away from said direction. The tea baggers simply allowed hidden bigots to bring their bigotry out of the closet and into mainstream politics because there was now a "national" movement calling for said changes.

Like I said, there is a world of difference. An old school republican may say blah blah blah and look all radical for his constituents but when it came to drawing up legislation they were willing to make compromises and work together. There were radicals in the bush administration for instance, but they were few and far between and they were in unelected positions like that of Karl rove. Now it's out in the open, you have tea partiers who want the US to default, stymie any economic stimulus, vote no on absolutely anything obama is associated with, and roll back all the regulations done subsequent to the debt bubble. It's a far cry from the old school republicans who put the country before the party. If the clear difference isn't obvious to you it's because you don't live here.

Sorry, but this cracked me up. Why on earth do you think they're Occupying if not learning from the Arab Spring?

Engage brain before telling arms to reach for keyboard.

Egyptians had one clear goal: Mubarek must resign. The government knew exactly what they wanted, as did the army, and this allowed them to draw support and be recognized internationally. There is no such solidarity of ideas in this movement.

[kingGhost]

actually it started out pretty clear: the wealth disparity in this country is dismal. however that is a symptom of a problem, so the movement lost a clear purpose after a while because any solution you put forth for a SYMPTOM will not solve the PROBLEM... so there is no end game, just a bunch of people shouting. as much as i agree with a lot of what the movement is about, unfortunately it was not organized enough from the start. now it's just about "hey, look at these asshole cops." - and that's a problem too, but a totally different thing.

[kay]

Real change. Right. Right down the slippery slope that the republicans were probably already on anyway.

The point must've went over your head: they shifted congress. There's a huge difference between an old school republican and a tea bagger. I would take the republicans under the clinton administration any day than these bigots.

Actually, I think my point went over your head. The congresspeople who went with their agenda were, from what I gather, mostly inclined in that way already anyway. It's much simpler to shift people more radically in a direction that they are already inclined towards, than to shift people away from said direction. The tea baggers simply allowed hidden bigots to bring their bigotry out of the closet and into mainstream politics because there was now a "national" movement calling for said changes.

Like I said, there is a world of difference. An old school republican may say blah blah blah and look all radical for his constituents but when it came to drawing up legislation they were willing to make compromises and work together. There were radicals in the bush administration for instance, but they were few and far between and they were in unelected positions like that of Karl rove. Now it's out in the open, you have tea partiers who want the US to default, stymie any economic stimulus, vote no on absolutely anything obama is associated with, and roll back all the regulations done subsequent to the debt bubble. It's a far cry from the old school republicans who put the country before the party. If the clear difference isn't obvious to you it's because you don't live here.

Nope I don't live in the US. Hence that's why this is in the UK version of the thread, not the US version...although I'm still not convinced from the outside looking in that old school republicans were really that much different. They just hid it better. Now they feel they can be open about it.

[AllNightDayDream]

Nope I don't live in the US. Hence that's why this is in the UK version of the thread, not the US version...although I'm still not convinced from the outside looking in that old school republicans were really that much different. They just hid it better. Now they feel they can be open about it.

Well you haven't been subject to the shift in political debate and conservative voting records since obama came into office. But it's an example of a popular movement making substantial changes in politics, and politics is something this movement seems to be intentionally steering away from, in spite of all their talk. That isn't going to solve anything.

and then shit like this pops up all the time and more and more I can't take this movement seriously.

[kay]

Nope I don't live in the US. Hence that's why this is in the UK version of the thread, not the US version...although I'm still not convinced from the outside looking in that old school republicans were really that much different. They just hid it better. Now they feel they can be open about it.

Well you haven't been subject to the shift in political debate and conservative voting records since obama came into office. But it's an example of a popular movement making substantial changes in politics, and politics is something this movement seems to be intentionally steering away from, in spite of all their talk. That isn't going to solve anything.

and then shit like this pops up all the time and more and more I can't take this movement seriously.

*shrug* I can't say or vouch for anything that happens in the US. However, just because things happen that way over there does not mean they have to happen the same way over here. For starters, the police in the US are, in general, more heavy handed and have a freer hand to do whatever they like. Over here, there has already been severe criticism over police crowd control methods and their lack of control. If they allow any acts of police violence to come to the forefront once again, the politicians and the police bosses know that there will be hell to pay.

Heck, if I were a terrorist, I'd find some way of goading a police officer into attacking me while at a protest. That'll kick things off all over the country again.

[AllNightDayDream]

*shrug* I can't say or vouch for anything that happens in the US. However, just because things happen that way over there does not mean they have to happen the same way over here. For starters, the police in the US are, in general, more heavy handed and have a freer hand to do whatever they like. Over here, there has already been severe criticism over police crowd control methods and their lack of control. If they allow any acts of police violence to come to the forefront once again, the politicians and the police bosses know that there will be hell to pay.

Heck, if I were a terrorist, I'd find some way of goading a police officer into attacking me while at a protest. That'll kick things off all over the country again.

I believe it. The way police are handling the protestors here is gradually getting worse, even while the protestors abide by their rules e.g. no tents. The demonstrations at University of California have gotten especially bad, officers forcing peoples mouths open and spraying mace into them till they cough up blood... And in a roundabout way it's better for the movement because of the attention it gets, but again the movement isn't doing anything with that attention. It's like the drunk cousin at family get-togethers screaming for everyone to listen to his announcement and when everyone's listening he rambles incoherently and everyone pretends to know what he's saying.

Every crisis is an opportunity for reform but the way this movement is being "organized", it's going to be an opportunity sadly lost. sall im sayin

[O Tumma Tum Ladin]

They really need to take a lesson from previous successful movements

Sorry, but this cracked me up. Why on earth do you think they're Occupying if not learning from the Arab Spring?

Engage brain before telling arms to reach for keyboard.

not sure the arab spring counts as a successful movement especially in the context of creating societies not controlled by wealthy CEOs and multinationals.

[kay]

*shrug* I can't say or vouch for anything that happens in the US. However, just because things happen that way over there does not mean they have to happen the same way over here. For starters, the police in the US are, in general, more heavy handed and have a freer hand to do whatever they like. Over here, there has already been severe criticism over police crowd control methods and their lack of control. If they allow any acts of police violence to come to the forefront once again, the politicians and the police bosses know that there will be hell to pay.

Heck, if I were a terrorist, I'd find some way of goading a police officer into attacking me while at a protest. That'll kick things off all over the country again.

I believe it. The way police are handling the protestors here is gradually getting worse, even while the protestors abide by their rules e.g. no tents. The demonstrations at University of California have gotten especially bad, officers forcing peoples mouths open and spraying mace into them till they cough up blood... And in a roundabout way it's better for the movement because of the attention it gets, but again the movement isn't doing anything with that attention. It's like the drunk cousin at family get-togethers screaming for everyone to listen to his announcement and when everyone's listening he rambles incoherently and everyone pretends to know what he's saying.

Every crisis is an opportunity for reform but the way this movement is being "organized", it's going to be an opportunity sadly lost. sall im sayin

Yeah it's sad if no one is actually taking this up and running with it. It really isn't a whole lot better than how protestors in the Middle East have been handled, apart of course from the fact that no one has died yet. Hopefully, it won't take that to spur some action.