A look at piracy and this forum's outlook on it.

[Figment]

respect the artists you listen too, if you like music buy it.

not a hard concept really is it

I just think it's entirely possible to respect music you listen to without buying it. I'm against people claiming buying music is the only way to show respect; or saying that I don't respect the music if I pirate it. That couldn't be further from the truth. Music has been my entire life. I'm a self-taught classical and metal guitarist of nine years now, and I just started getting into production. I have nothing BUT respect for the music, I just have conflicting views regarding how I can show that respect.

It is definitely possible to respect music and the artist in other ways other than just buying their music, i may not be reading 100% accurately, but i don't believe i have read a post yet that says to me "BUYING ARTISTS MUSIC IS THE ONLY WAY TO POSSIBLY SHOW THEM RESPECT"

I think you are missing the point of music, because throughout history, music has been this huge taboo and caused people to think differently and rebel. Music used to be about doing something wild and against the grain, and now you're saying you need to be prim and proper and not break the law? I don't understand. What happened to the "You gotta fight for your right to party" mentality? If there's anyone to blame for piracy becoming popular, it's probably music itself for instilling the moral that not following authority is okay.

Without trying to seem like i am making an attack on you, i think that is one of the silliest things i have read.
that is the lyrics to one song, which was sold, and bought by many people in the world

It is the lyrics to a song, but they're true. Look at punk rock when it started, that was just about being obnoxious and spreading their message of mayhem. Look and some early grindcore, look at some death metal. Those genres were about having FUN, not obeying the law. I haven't followed much electronic music over the years so I don't know if it's different, but punk especially was basically created in order to say "fuck you" to authority, and a lot of music followed that mentality. That's more or less the mentality I have with music. There are no rules with music, and I couldn't give less of a shit what the law is regarding how I'm "supposed" to attain music I want to hear. I'll do whatever I want to, because that's the message music has given me over the years.

I do see where you are coming from, but i also see my collection of CD's/Vinyls that i have paid for of genres you have mentioned, and i see it being right.

Not at all trying to start a topic within a topic, but, just say, your computers HD got wiped, and ipod/iphone, and filesharing sites got shut down, and for the sake of it, youtube too.. how much music could you listen to then? only what you rightfully owned. unless of course you physically stole those CD's

[Dub_freak]

A dollar is too much for one song in my opinion.

You must hate the music you listen to, how is one dollar too much for a song you will possibly remember for years to come?

I get £20 a week college money but i try to buy as much music as i can, even splash out on vinyl every now and then. I admit i do pirate some stuff like movies, software, my os and a few games. i pirated this stuff simply because i cant afford it, and i do feel like a twat for not buying it, but if i see something like a game on sale on steam that i pirated a while back, then i'll buy it because i enjoyed it. If i could afford to buy everything i would, but i dont have a job, i choose to spend the little money i do have mostly on music because its what I love most in life. i prefer to give my money to people who need it most, its the underground labels who barely brake even or sometimes lose money on a release, i give my money to them because it makes a bigger difference than adding a couple quid into the pocket of millionaire record labels. imo music is cheap for what you get (especially if you buy digital).

The temptation of getting stuff for 'free' is too strong for most people, even for me sometimes. I buy what i can when i can, if i like something and i can afford it then i buy it, if it costs too much for me then i pirate it then save up the money to buy it legit.

[TMSV]

bottom line is you are unwilling (not unable) to pay for the music you listen to, and you don't see how that is wrong (you claimed there is no right and wrong in this case; there is, in my opinion).

the reason people think pirating music is ok, is because
1) it's been so readily available online for a while, and
2) big record companies don't deserve your cash because they're dicks (I kind of agree with 2, I guess).

The thing is, this scene is built on small labels working very hard to push the music they want people to hear. It's not about making money, it's about providing a reliable way for people to acquire music they will probably like, and to push the music which these label owners love. A lot of small labels take huge risks by releasing certain tunes, by investing lots of money without any guarantee that they will even break even.

The fact that you've been downloading music for years (and tbh I seriously doubt there's anyone on here who hasn't downloaded music for free in the past), has probably made you feel entitled to the music you like. I understand, to some extent, but there's a lot to consider: small labels, producers who spend their time and money because they want to make music (don't forget school, uni, work, etc), and most importantly the fact that if everyone would stop paying for music, there would be no scene.

Also, if all music were free, it would be a mess on the internet, and I don't think people like myself would get much exposure or gigs, simply because it would be impossible to effectively reach the relatively small audience (for example my type of) dubstep has.

I hope this all made sense..

[Juice Terry]

A dollar is too much for one song in my opinion.

You must hate the music you listen to, how is one dollar too much for a song you will possibly remember for years to come?

I get £20 a week college money but i try to buy as much music as i can, even splash out on vinyl every now and then. I admit i do pirate some stuff like movies, software, my os and a few games. i pirated this stuff simply because i cant afford it, and i do feel like a twat for not buying it, but if i see something like a game on sale on steam that i pirated a while back, then i'll buy it because i enjoyed it. If i could afford to buy everything i would, but i dont have a job, i choose to spend the little money i do have mostly on music because its what I love most in life. i prefer to give my money to people who need it most, its the underground labels who barely brake even or sometimes lose money on a release, i give my money to them because it makes a bigger difference than adding a couple quid into the pocket of millionaire record labels. imo music is cheap for what you get (especially if you buy digital).

The temptation of getting stuff for 'free' is too strong for most people, even for me sometimes. I buy what i can when i can, if i like something and i can afford it then i buy it, if it costs too much for me then i pirate it then save up the money to buy it legit.

You're a hypocrite, pal. You can't say that it's ok to pirate some stuff and not others... I just don't get these feelings of entitlement that people seem to have. i.e. I can't afford it so I just took it, it pisses me off.

[D3ATHSTEP]

bottom line is you are unwilling (not unable) to pay for the music you listen to, and you don't see how that is wrong (you claimed there is no right and wrong in this case; there is, in my opinion).

the reason people think pirating music is ok, is because
1) it's been so readily available online for a while, and
2) big record companies don't deserve your cash because they're dicks (I kind of agree with 2, I guess).

The thing is, this scene is built on small labels working very hard to push the music they want people to hear. It's not about making money, it's about providing a reliable way for people to acquire music they will probably like, and to push the music which these label owners love. A lot of small labels take huge risks by releasing certain tunes, by investing lots of money without any guarantee that they will even break even.

The fact that you've been downloading music for years (and tbh I seriously doubt there's anyone on here who hasn't downloaded music for free in the past), has probably made you feel entitled to the music you like. I understand, to some extent, but there's a lot to consider: small labels, producers who spend their time and money because they want to make music (don't forget school, uni, work, etc), and most importantly the fact that if everyone would stop paying for music, there would be no scene.

Also, if all music were free, it would be a mess on the internet, and I don't think people like myself would get much exposure or gigs, simply because it would be impossible to effectively reach the relatively small audience (for example my type of) dubstep has.

I hope this all made sense..

Probably the best post I've read so far, very nice. All your points make perfect sense, and are mostly likely the case in my scenario. I do agree that the "little guy" is affect the most by this, and to that end I do indeed have sympathy. I'm "the little guy" as well, however, and life is always one big financial struggle; especially as an artist. I do disagree that there wouldn't be a scene. I think there will ALWAYS be scenes within music. It's just how things have worked since the dawn of music itself. I'm sure there were (very neanderthalic)scenes back when people were just beating on animal hides for rhythm.

[wizeguy]

anyone who says they are to poor to buy music is chatting shit, i've been out of work for months and still scrape together enough money to buy a few records here and there, and what's a download like a £1 or something, come on now don't be a c*nt, support the artists you like so they can keep making music

[brasco]

anyone who says they are to poor to buy music is chatting shit, i've been out of work for months and still scrape together enough money to buy a few records here and there, and what's a download like a £1 or something, come on now don't be a c*nt, support the artists you like so they can keep making music

[Dub_freak]

A dollar is too much for one song in my opinion.

You must hate the music you listen to, how is one dollar too much for a song you will possibly remember for years to come?

I get £20 a week college money but i try to buy as much music as i can, even splash out on vinyl every now and then. I admit i do pirate some stuff like movies, software, my os and a few games. i pirated this stuff simply because i cant afford it, and i do feel like a twat for not buying it, but if i see something like a game on sale on steam that i pirated a while back, then i'll buy it because i enjoyed it. If i could afford to buy everything i would, but i dont have a job, i choose to spend the little money i do have mostly on music because its what I love most in life. i prefer to give my money to people who need it most, its the underground labels who barely brake even or sometimes lose money on a release, i give my money to them because it makes a bigger difference than adding a couple quid into the pocket of millionaire record labels. imo music is cheap for what you get (especially if you buy digital).

The temptation of getting stuff for 'free' is too strong for most people, even for me sometimes. I buy what i can when i can, if i like something and i can afford it then i buy it, if it costs too much for me then i pirate it then save up the money to buy it legit.

You're a hypocrite, pal. You can't say that it's ok to pirate some stuff and not others... I just don't get these feelings of entitlement that people seem to have. i.e. I can't afford it so I just took it, it pisses me off.

As i said i buy stuff when i can, and save up to buy it at a later date, i have bought back most of my music and games. And as TMSV said:

2) big record companies don't deserve your cash because they're dicks (I kind of agree with 2, I guess).

I also agreed with this, i think my money will do better in the pocket of the little man who really struggles for money than the corporate giants who are already swimming in it.

[brasco]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

[TMSV]

bottom line is you are unwilling (not unable) to pay for the music you listen to, and you don't see how that is wrong (you claimed there is no right and wrong in this case; there is, in my opinion).

the reason people think pirating music is ok, is because
1) it's been so readily available online for a while, and
2) big record companies don't deserve your cash because they're dicks (I kind of agree with 2, I guess).

The thing is, this scene is built on small labels working very hard to push the music they want people to hear. It's not about making money, it's about providing a reliable way for people to acquire music they will probably like, and to push the music which these label owners love. A lot of small labels take huge risks by releasing certain tunes, by investing lots of money without any guarantee that they will even break even.

The fact that you've been downloading music for years (and tbh I seriously doubt there's anyone on here who hasn't downloaded music for free in the past), has probably made you feel entitled to the music you like. I understand, to some extent, but there's a lot to consider: small labels, producers who spend their time and money because they want to make music (don't forget school, uni, work, etc), and most importantly the fact that if everyone would stop paying for music, there would be no scene.

Also, if all music were free, it would be a mess on the internet, and I don't think people like myself would get much exposure or gigs, simply because it would be impossible to effectively reach the relatively small audience (for example my type of) dubstep has.

I hope this all made sense..

Probably the best post I've read so far, very nice. All your points make perfect sense, and are mostly likely the case in my scenario. I do agree that the "little guy" is affect the most by this, and to that end I do indeed have sympathy. I'm "the little guy" as well, however, and life is always one big financial struggle; especially as an artist. I do disagree that there wouldn't be a scene. I think there will ALWAYS be scenes within music. It's just how things have worked since the dawn of music itself. I'm sure there were (very neanderthalic)scenes back when people were just beating on animal hides for rhythm.

I think it's because I'm an artist that I pay for everything I play. Before that I didn't realise how much small labels need money.

Also, about there being no scene: imagine where dubstep would be right now, if labels like Tempa or DMZ had failed to sell any records in the early days.. there would've been close to no exposure for a lot of artists, which means getting gigs would've been impossible for them, because no nights would've been set up by people who saw potential in the music. dubstep would've been nipped in the bud and people outside of the UK would never have heard of it... --> no scene

[Juice Terry]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

This...

Reminds me of this video - which is ace

[wizeguy]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

exactly, how about if everyone stopped making music because of these pricks, how'd they feel then?...

i found out someone i knew ripped music the other day and from the small guys on soundcloud as well, proper pissed me off, had a right go at him....
gonna have another go at him next time i see him, might even jack something of his

[TMSV]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

exactly, how about if everyone stopped making music because of these pricks, how'd they feel then?...

i found out someone i knew ripped music the other day and from the small guys on soundcloud as well, proper pissed me off, had a right go at him....
gonna have another go at him next time i see him, might even jack something of his

jack his innocence

[Juice Terry]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

exactly, how about if everyone stopped making music because of these pricks, how'd they feel then?...

i found out someone i knew ripped music the other day and from the small guys on soundcloud as well, proper pissed me off, had a right go at him....
gonna have another go at him next time i see him, might even jack something of his

jack his innocence

[seckle]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

150%

its the entitlement generation. if i can click on it, its mine, etc.

[vax]

Some tunes I released have more blog/share site/Youtube uploads than they do actual sales.

I'm working overtime over the holidays at my shitty job so that I can pay my rent & eat.

I don't understand how anyone who isn't touring 10 months out of the year can afford to do the music thing full time.

[wizeguy]

i cant believe people are justifying downloading music illegally on a music forum. this generation of 'i want everything now', 'i deserve it' can fuck right off.

exactly, how about if everyone stopped making music because of these pricks, how'd they feel then?...

i found out someone i knew ripped music the other day and from the small guys on soundcloud as well, proper pissed me off, had a right go at him....
gonna have another go at him next time i see him, might even jack something of his

jack his innocence

and his tv after

[badger]

you do have a point about youtube links tbh, but as with all forms of piracy it comes down to how the user responds to it. the thread is there to point people in the direction of some music they like; and you'd hope that they would then seek out the artists work and either buy some music or some them live or whatever. if someone then decides to go and torrent their entire back catalogue then that is on that person and not the person who linked it to them

i'll admit that when i was a student i used to p2p music so i'm by no means an innocent in this. it doesn't justify my actions but i had a different view on music back then, and when i started DJing i started buy shitloads of vinyl. as a result a value my music far more rather than having gigabytes of music that i hoarded and barely even listened to, and i like to be able to give something back to the music that i love

You think the music world owes you something, when it owes you nothing. Especially somebody that doesn't put anything into it.

exactly. this whole argument comes down to self-entitled amongst so many people these days

I just think it's entirely possible to respect music you listen to without buying it.

there is. it's called downloading free releases. there are plenty of artists giving out music for free, or netlabels doing likewise. these are people that share your opinion and want you to have their music for free. so by all means follow their wishes and download all you like from them; but that doesn't mean that you're free to ignore another artist's wishes and download music that they haven't given you permission for

as pete has said, your views are the polar opposite to mine and others' so this discussion is unlikely to go anywhere in convincing you otherwise

[badger]

spent the best part of the day trying to read this thread whilst at work

bottom line is you are unwilling (not unable) to pay for the music you listen to, and you don't see how that is wrong (you claimed there is no right and wrong in this case; there is, in my opinion).

the reason people think pirating music is ok, is because
1) it's been so readily available online for a while, and
2) big record companies don't deserve your cash because they're dicks (I kind of agree with 2, I guess).

The thing is, this scene is built on small labels working very hard to push the music they want people to hear. It's not about making money, it's about providing a reliable way for people to acquire music they will probably like, and to push the music which these label owners love. A lot of small labels take huge risks by releasing certain tunes, by investing lots of money without any guarantee that they will even break even.

The fact that you've been downloading music for years (and tbh I seriously doubt there's anyone on here who hasn't downloaded music for free in the past), has probably made you feel entitled to the music you like. I understand, to some extent, but there's a lot to consider: small labels, producers who spend their time and money because they want to make music (don't forget school, uni, work, etc), and most importantly the fact that if everyone would stop paying for music, there would be no scene.

couldn't agree more. there's a vast difference in torrenting lady gaga from record companies that strangle the music industry; and torrenting from a small label/producer and potentially making it so that they can no longer release/produce the music that you love

[wizeguy]

spent the best part of the day trying to read this thread whilst at work

bottom line is you are unwilling (not unable) to pay for the music you listen to, and you don't see how that is wrong (you claimed there is no right and wrong in this case; there is, in my opinion).

the reason people think pirating music is ok, is because
1) it's been so readily available online for a while, and
2) big record companies don't deserve your cash because they're dicks (I kind of agree with 2, I guess).

The thing is, this scene is built on small labels working very hard to push the music they want people to hear. It's not about making money, it's about providing a reliable way for people to acquire music they will probably like, and to push the music which these label owners love. A lot of small labels take huge risks by releasing certain tunes, by investing lots of money without any guarantee that they will even break even.

The fact that you've been downloading music for years (and tbh I seriously doubt there's anyone on here who hasn't downloaded music for free in the past), has probably made you feel entitled to the music you like. I understand, to some extent, but there's a lot to consider: small labels, producers who spend their time and money because they want to make music (don't forget school, uni, work, etc), and most importantly the fact that if everyone would stop paying for music, there would be no scene.

couldn't agree more. there's a vast difference in torrenting lady gaga from record companies that strangle the music industry; and torrenting from a small label/producer and potentially making it so that they can no longer release/produce the music that you love

oh yea well who here gives a shit about the rich and greedy popstars who are in it for the money more than the music.... Fuck them guys!
i thought we were talking about artists who make real music

we are talking bout them tho init, so don't rob them