Have your track mastered for only £10 can't argue with that

[dublerium]

To be honest I thought I might give it a pop, as it's only a tenner. But when I heard the a-b of the guys tune who posted it I didn't think it sounded good at all, I found it quite abrasive sounding. I guess a lot of people would do this sort of thing to see what mastering can do for their music, what the extra stage does for a song, but to be honest I want to get my perspective of that stage right at the beginning, so I'll go with an ME I know to be trustworthy and quality. Generally in life the case is you get what you pay for and I think something like this is definitely one of those cases. To have a trusted ME like safeandsound putting posts like the above further outline this. I want my first mastered mix to come back an accurate representation of what a decent master can do for a mix, I think it's important to get something like that spot in in your mind from the off-start, if your getting some dodgy bedroom master back from someone that doesn't practise the best methods then your perception of that process is going to be skewed. Try it if you like, I won't be.

[Electric_Head]

We should do a blind test.
Send the same track to me or someone else interested in fiddling.
I`ll produce a similar or better master imo.
More impact and space rather than just volume and eq.

Not hating on the OP but it`s just that if you`re going to publicize the results, you`d want them to be awesome sounding not just ok.

[mthrfnk]

Just to outline a thought...

since I have no idea really about mastering hardware and the like.

Responses like this suggest some people may not be at the level of experience to be able to judge what is and is not a good master. People like this may well be up for burning a tenner (no disrespect either because everyone has to start somewhere), but people who are professional musicians or serious hobbyists and who wish to invest in their artistic product, creative energy and legacy for whatever reason, do not commonly pay £10.00. Just to be clear I believe I should in fact be charging £50.00 for the engineering background and experience I have under my belt relative to many other mastering studios. But alas pricing is a very personal thing and should stay so. But when a start up starts spouting off about......... and to quote "robbing", it is in professionals interest to respond. This is not a bedroom game, this is peoples life work as it is for those who are serious about music making where they put it before all else in there life making serious sacrifice along the way in many cases.

If anyone wants to make something of this please realize I do this day in day out using very serious equipment, so you better be good.

This is exactly true tbh, I wasn't meaning to have a go at you. I really wouldn't say I could judge a good master from a bad one and I've never even seen, let alone used any mastering hardware irl - which is why I was agreeing that it would be cool to hear other ME's takes on a stock track provided by someone, just as a sort of guide to what to expect and how to know you're getting the real deal.

[outbound]

Just to outline a thought...

since I have no idea really about mastering hardware and the like.

Responses like this suggest some people may not be at the level of experience to be able to judge what is and is not a good master. People like this may well be up for burning a tenner (no disrespect either because everyone has to start somewhere), but people who are professional musicians or serious hobbyists and who wish to invest in their artistic product, creative energy and legacy for whatever reason, do not commonly pay £10.00. Just to be clear I believe I should in fact be charging £50.00 for the engineering background and experience I have under my belt relative to many other mastering studios. But alas pricing is a very personal thing and should stay so. But when a start up starts spouting off about......... and to quote "robbing", it is in professionals interest to respond. This is not a bedroom game, this is peoples life work as it is for those who are serious about music making where they put it before all else in there life making serious sacrifice along the way in many cases.

If anyone wants to make something of this please realize I do this day in day out using very serious equipment, so you better be good.

This is exactly true tbh, I wasn't meaning to have a go at you. I really wouldn't say I could judge a good master from a bad one and I've never even seen, let alone used any mastering hardware irl - which is why I was agreeing that it would be cool to hear other ME's takes on a stock track provided by someone, just as a sort of guide to what to expect and how to know you're getting the real deal.

It's a nice idea to have a standard track that you could use to 'test' the potential of a mastering engineers competence. But it unfortunately would fall down on a few different levels. First of all even if you got a group of ME's that do this for a living and managed to convince them to take part in this sort of guinea pig experiment you would get different results. Each would be able to clear up the sound and make it fit for purpose, sounding great on various different systems. But everyone has their own style, signal chain and more importantly their own idea of what it should sound like. Some like a lot of low end, some guys like a very bright sound. Some guys go for more dynamic tracks while others are a little less reserved with their compression.

One important decision when choosing a mastering engineer isn't down to just budget and what their setup is. It's about chemistry, you need someone that shares a similar artistic vision and understands what it is you are looking to accomplish. Some musicians when it comes to mastering are completely happy with the sound and want very little changed (only a little top up in volume to be needed) other's are looking for the ME to bring something new to their track, to helps bring certain aspects of the mix to life. Some understand that their track may not be scoring the 'mixdown of the year award' and need some extra help getting it to work.

The problem is you never quite know what you are going to get from a ME just by hearing the samples from what they have done to other musicians tracks. You need to ask around and do a bit of research. Speak to friends who have had their work mastered, look for other producers you look up to and find out who has the mastering credits for their releases, you may find some of them are well within budget.

The final judge of whether a master is good or not can only be yourself. Play it at equal loudness to the original mixdown and ask yourself has it improved the sound or just made it louder? Has it captured what you were trying to convey with the music? After that I guess it's up to the masses, if you love it and so does everyone else well.. then you are on to a winner

[Lichee]

what are Transitions prices, because everyone I look up to is mastered at Transition but I can imagine i'm looking at £50 - £100 per track and I can't afford that for more than one or two tunes. This is what it boils down to in the end.

[safeandsound]

Dublerium a wise post and Outbound another sensible post also.

[safeandsound]

Just to add, mastering is about degrees, small degrees of adjustment and trust me you require 'baddass' systems in place to have a basis for action. Then you need equipment that can instigate the required changes with the minimum of negative influence. Remember every process employed degrades the audio in some way. You need hi fidelity and accurate reproduction to assess the compromises between the subjective improvements vs the side effects.

Maybe it is even difficult to imagine what happens in mastering for some. Until you have heard a fully treated room with a linear, full range and detailed repro system it may always remain a mystery. Fact is I play a track and reach for exactly the right tools to do a specific job in response to what I have heard within one pass. The main responses to what I have heard happens in 15-25 mins, but the impression is largely instant, you are paying for the knowledge, equipment and experience of the individual. In my case thats 20 years total to know what to do through working in virtually every field of audio engineering (except live FOH).

Of course there are often further layers of tweaks that happen as you adjust perspective, overall the practical aspect takes longer than 25 mins and of course there is QC to consider.

I could write an essay on this but I have work to finish so will contribute and review as time goes on. However, I am not one to shy from this kind of thing if there is sufficient interest.

SafeandSound Mastering
mastering dance music
online mastering

[lloydy]

Dublerium a wise post and Outbound another well informed post also. However, I am not one to shy from this kind of thing if there is sufficient interest.

I've had a night off the forum and been to work all day but my opinion hasn't changed i still want to hear the different results from 2 different me's.
I fully understand where you are coming from outbound and can understand why safeandsound has reacted the way he did.
The way i see it if Paul(i mean no disrespect by this)is a man with all the gear and no idea then hearing his work up against safeandsound's work the should be a huge gulf in class that even a mastering noob like me could hear.
In all honesty i just wanted to hear the a/b results of safe's work too.
Sorry if i pissed anyone off,seemed a really good idea after about 20 pints

Still wanna see it happen though

[__________]

Have your track mastered for only £10 can't argue with that

[deadly_habit]

depone was doing 10 quid masters for awhile, the difference being his were for labels and stuff that actually came out heh

[Sonika]

Where's Paul Ashmore? Did he leave the thread?

[Immerse]

safeandsound, if you want me to send you the same exact tune, its only fair to do so.
id definitely be interested in seeing the result and ill post an ab of that as well.

[NW_DUBAHOLIC]

Read through 6 pages of this and can't believe nobody mentioned this...

also use iPod headphones alot as well for mixing.

[mthrfnk]

Read through 6 pages of this and can't believe nobody mentioned this...

also use iPod headphones alot as well for mixing.

Wait wut

[Tracks To Wax]

I do it cheaper and I don't try to con artist. People charging £30 a master are just robbing people who want to hear what their tracks sounds like mastered. A master is not running it through ozone at playing with your mouse. .

If it were me I'd sooner have my ME's critical ear in a top end listening environment with brilliant monitors using software to master with, than having a low end environment and budget monitors using high-end hardware (which for the most part i would be sceptical in using on my clients entire mixes...everytime). FWIW We are currently in the process of having a new room built specifically for our services along with some new (large) custom built monitors. I can assure you that there's no robbing of artists when it comes to costing.

There is the argument that the money invested by ME's in building the right environment, getting the right monitors and outboard for the job, investing years of experience, the time spent per track, and the time for making any changes, justifies the cost ...let alone the test cuts, cutter head and diamonds, in our case. (the £30 example used in this thread is actually cheap in comparison to a lot of ME's).

I think most would benefit from an attended session.

[Killamike49]

Wow. Really guys? Paul if offering an affordable alternative to £30 masters, and another mastering engineer comes in and disrespects the guy by basically saying he doesn't know what he's doing and masters in his bedroom, and that's fine? I understand where safeandsound is coming from, but that's a bit low.

[safeandsound]

To clarify he said £30.00 mastering is robbery, that deserves a robust response and when I see someone who is
clearly trying to redefine the meaning of the word mastering with their particular 'style', don't expect pleasantries.
Ultimately it's a free market and people can do what ever they wish but don't announce robbery to those significantly
more experienced, equipped and serious, otherwise you will get a clear response.

[outbound]

To clarify he said £30.00 mastering is robbery, that deserves a robust response and when I see someone who is
clearly trying to redefine the meaning of the word mastering with their particular 'style', don't expect pleasantries.
Ultimately it's a free market and people can do what ever they wish but don't announce robbery to those significantly
more experienced, equipped and serious, otherwise you will get a clear response.

It may be harsh but at the same time this is fair comment to make.

It has to be understood that there are many price points with mastering (just like any other market really) and you do get what you pay for. It's one thing to offer a service for a lower price than other mastering houses (not everyone has a spare £100-200 to spend on a track that isn't aimed for a release) but to claim that anyone charging more is trying to somehow rip people off is a very misguided accusation that isn't fair on the guys that have spent countless hours refining their art, and have invested heavily both in time and money spent in the studio.

I wish Paul the best with what he is trying to accomplish but it isn't doing anyone any favours trying to badmouth the 'competition' or imply that paying more than £10.00 is a waste of money.

To be fair as well this thread wondered off from the 'quick plug' track quite a while ago and I'm not confident that there is anything else that can be brought to the thread that isn't going to be negative to either Paul or other ME's so may be an idea if the mods could lock?

[wub]

may be an idea if the mods could lock?

OP needs a chance to defend himself if he wishes.

[PaulAshmore]

Firstly let me just say I feel I may written not quite what I meant and maybe given you the wrong end of the stick.

Now I totally agree with the charging of £30 and up for a great master with great gear and a wealth of experience. You can not put a price on experience. Safe and sound should quite rightly charge these prices, hell he could probably charge what he wants and he'd still get a huge amount of custom. But as he will well know there is also a huge amount of people without great gear or a wealth of experience who are competing in his £27 price range. I can tell this angers you and quite rightly so. I find this to be robbery preying on artist who don't know who to have master their tracks. They maybe don't know what half the gear you have is or does. It becomes a difficult choice to make choosing your ME. I mean I could quite easily have put my prices at £27 and not shown any pictures of the gear I use and just said I use this and this and this and tried to compete head on with you. That would have been stupid though. So in comparison to your experience and gear I charge £10. I find this to be fair. Not everyone wants to spend £30 a master on every track they release.

I know a few guys charging £20-£30 for masters that don't have the gear safe and sound has and use ozone and t racks. I won't name and shame them but this I what I see as mastering robbery.

Sorry if I offend you safe and sound wasn't directed at you my rant was more directed at software mastering for £30 when you could technically learn and do it yourself at home.

What I try to offer is a low budget services that still uses high end gear and still gets great results compared to the original audio. Not everyone wants to pay £30 for a great master on a track their only putting up on soundcloud. I've had 100's of artist have their tracks mixed and master by me and they all return every so often with the next track so I must be doing something right.

http://www.paulashmore.co.uk/studioservices.php