Dubstep And Criticism

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:48 am

nedbeauman wrote:So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it?

I can't think of any journalists that contribute in a positive sense to dubstep. Mostly they just attempt to divide and factionalise the scene.

nedbeauman wrote:(Or since you don't like journalists 'across the board' I assume you'd also prefer that there was no one to cover wars, interview politicians, or tell you where to get a good curry?)

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the standard of mainstream news journalism and the political lobby is in any way acceptable? And food critics are the worst! FFS!

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:49 am

dq wrote:LOL!

oh man that's rough. i just noticed he removed the tag 'grimeist' from his blog. respect to simon though. top writer.

nar man.

jesus fuck.

respect to the greats! THE FUCKING GREATS.

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:50 am

Paulie wrote:
nedbeauman wrote:So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it?
I can't think of any journalists that contribute in a positive sense to dubstep. Mostly they just attempt to divide and factionalise the scene.

nedbeauman wrote:(Or since you don't like journalists 'across the board' I assume you'd also prefer that there was no one to cover wars, interview politicians, or tell you where to get a good curry?)
Are you seriously trying to suggest that the standard of mainstream news journalism and the political lobby is in any way acceptable? And food critics are the worst! FFS!

everything paulie says from now on i agree with.

its Mr. Paulie Messer on this thread now

joseph-j · Post by **joseph-j** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:04 am

Journalists in general are smug self-satisfied, self-educated, self-important fuckwits.

Apart from John Simpson. That man has balls.

mos dan · Post by **mos dan** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:22 am

Paulie wrote:
nedbeauman wrote:So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it?
I can't think of any journalists that contribute in a positive sense to dubstep. Mostly they just attempt to divide and factionalise the scene.

yeah journalists have this horrible, cynical tendency to discriminate against shit music in favour of good music. it's so prejudiced yknow?

'factionalise the scene' is fucking LOL... this ain't west side story

if you're seriously trying to tell me people like martin clark and georgina cook have had a negative impact on dubstep then, well, i don't even have the right words to respond to such BS. sounds like someone's been getting some bad reviews if y'ask me.

shonky · Post by **shonky** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:24 am

Paulie wrote: In music it's pretty much a case of: Those that can, do. Those that can't, pontificate cluelessly about it in magazines and on the web. Wastemen.

Hmmmnnn...thinking there's quite a few that can't that do anyway across most music genres.

Presumably by the same level, those that can't do journalism pontificate about it cluelessly on the web also.

Seemed to me that some of what was said on DOA was true - some dubstep is tedious, a lot of it's neither innovative or more spiritual than previous musics and dnb needs the velocity as it'd just be boring as hell without it (or in some cases with it). Also as was pointed out, when/if it gets to 10 dubstep releases a week and different sub-genres emerge (yah I listen to liquid glitch-step yah!!) people's tolerance for sub-par releases is gonna disappear.

Sometimes get the idea that if someone recorded certain producers farting in a can and pressed it up, it'd get bought by somebody regardless.

nine · Post by **nine** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:40 am

mos dan wrote:
Paulie wrote:
nedbeauman wrote:So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it?
I can't think of any journalists that contribute in a positive sense to dubstep. Mostly they just attempt to divide and factionalise the scene.
yeah journalists have this horrible, cynical tendency to discriminate against shit music in favour of good music. it's so prejudiced yknow?

'factionalise the scene' is fucking LOL... this ain't west side story

if you're seriously trying to tell me people like martin clark and georgina cook have had a negative impact on dubstep then, well, i don't even have the right words to respond to such BS. sounds like someone's been getting some bad reviews if y'ask me.

. . .spot on mos dan

spaceboy · Post by **spaceboy** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:48 am

print media is a dying breed. get used to it.

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:50 am

mos dan wrote:yeah journalists have this horrible, cynical tendency to discriminate against shit music in favour of good music. it's so prejudiced yknow?

Right, so personal agendas don't come into it at all? It's all purely objective. Fine, just checking.

mos dan wrote:if you're seriously trying to tell me people like martin clark and georgina cook have had a negative impact on dubstep then, well, i don't even have the right words to respond to such BS. sounds like someone's been getting some bad reviews if y'ask me.

I didn't realise either of those two did reviews? Actually Martin Clark's been quite supportive to my tunes in his columns, especially given our personal disagreements so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that.

Not sure where you get off personalising all this, or you Mr Nine.

batfink · Post by **batfink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:50 am

this thread has turned into a pointless "i am right you are wrong" argument.

bad journalism is bad
bad music is bad
good journalism is good
good music is good

you could argue about the grey areas between those 4 statements as long as you like but it will change nothing.

nine · Post by **nine** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:56 am

Paulie wrote:
Not sure where you get off personalising all this, or you Mr Nine.

not guilty, your honour

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:02 am

NINE wrote:
mos dan wrote:
Paulie wrote:
nedbeauman wrote:So you like dubstep, but you'd rather there was no one around to publicise it?
I can't think of any journalists that contribute in a positive sense to dubstep. Mostly they just attempt to divide and factionalise the scene.
yeah journalists have this horrible, cynical tendency to discriminate against shit music in favour of good music. it's so prejudiced yknow?

'factionalise the scene' is fucking LOL... this ain't west side story

if you're seriously trying to tell me people like martin clark and georgina cook have had a negative impact on dubstep then, well, i don't even have the right words to respond to such BS. sounds like someone's been getting some bad reviews if y'ask me.
. . .spot on mos dan

baaahahahahaha.

i genuinely believe georgina cook is the genuine article. lady has genuine talent.

but otherwise... baaaaaahahahaha

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:10 am

mos dan wrote:safe though ned, nice to hear someone sticking up for us for once. i had this massive argument with my mate after the world cup after he told me 'media pressure' was to blame for us being crap at the world cup and also for us going out on penalties. i'm sorry, did sven and the team have nothing to do with it then? geesh.

Right now I understand.

It's hilarious that the most divisive, destructive influence in society today is in such complete denial, at least at foot soldier / grunt level.

mr. messer · Post by **mr. messer** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:11 am

bret easton ellis fans

the fuckin lot of em

dj krave · Post by **dj krave** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:13 am

Paulie wrote:
A severe lack of criticism in the dubstep scene

I am speaking as a dubstep dj / producer ( years into it ) and promoter ( hold the only dubstep monthly in my city )... as an " insider ", so to speak.

Let's try to turn this thread into a constructive conversation about the problematic relationship between dubstep and criticism !

It seems there's some kind of unwritten rule on dubstep forums - this unwritten rule is more often than not applied in the real world - : dubstep cannot be criticized ; a dubstep track ( since it is not drum and bass ? since it is so forward and revolutionnary ? ) is by default a good track.

If you don't think so it's simply because you haven't evolved to the next stage of musical consciousness and don't quite understand dubstep : therefore, 1. your judgement is invalid, 2. You're a wasteman.

Praise is automatically given to tracks produced by well known and not-so-well known producers ( Skream, DMZ, Distance, Pinch, Boxcutter, M.R.K. 1, Loefah, D1, Coki, etc... as if they could not produce bad tracks. How many times have you heard or read : " This DMZ / Skream track is shit ! " ? ) to the point where dubsteppers don't need to open their mouths for you to know what they think. This lack of criticism, this " forced positivity " to me is problematic. It seems to me that a lot of dubsteppers, who will not tolerate honest criticism, are blurring the lines between the good, the bad and the ugly, in order to make the ugly and the bad " look good ".

[ Criticism will be directed outwards, towards " less-evolved ", low-brow forms of music, such as drum and bass. ]

Listen carefully to whatever is in the dubstep section of redeye records or BM Soho, and you will agree that within dubstep there are bad tunes - and also REALLY bad ones. What's wrong with saying that there are shit, boring tunes in dubstep ? Dubstep cannot always be " sublime ". I don't care if some dubstep tracks are meant to be " spiritual " or " more intelligent " than tracks from more " dumb " dance music genres, if they are shit and if they bore me I see no reason for me not to say it. But it's as if one could not utter a single word against these particular tracks. Dubstep heads ( as they often interpret criticism of a piece as an attack on dubstep as a whole ) will immediately gang up on whoever has not been crushed under the pressure to say what the others say and dares criticize a piece. On the contrary, these tracks will be over-hyped by zealous dubsteppers, even more so if they are the doing of a well-known producer... at the end of the day, we end up with tons of track reviews which make them appear better than they really are. To me, this kind of criticism is the " death " of criticism.

I want your opinions please.

Have you noticed this lack of criticism ?

What do you make of dubstep coverage in the press ?
This is true, there is a lot of boring music out there, but i'm not naming names!!

batfink · Post by **batfink** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:22 am

Paulie wrote:It's hilarious that the most divisive, destructive influence in society today is in such complete denial, at least at foot soldier / grunt level.

jeez man. i think you're confusing the issue a bit. Are we talking about dubstep critics or are we getting in to the thorny territory of political bias in news journalism?

I think tarring all journalists with a shitty brush for the misdemeanours of a select few is short sighted at best.

nine · Post by **nine** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:27 am

Paulie wrote:
It's hilarious that the most divisive, destructive influence in society today is in such complete denial, at least at foot soldier / grunt level.

lol
not clear on the direct links between dubstep and international finance capital, but we'll all take your word for it.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:28 am

This is getting interesting

Keep an eye on this one. For what it's worth i think, sorry i don't think. My opinions are formed by what i read.

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:29 am

Batfink wrote:
Paulie wrote:It's hilarious that the most divisive, destructive influence in society today is in such complete denial, at least at foot soldier / grunt level.

jeez man. i think you're confusing the issue a bit. Are we talking about dubstep critics or are we getting in to the thorny territory of political bias in news journalism?

I think tarring all journalists with a shitty brush for the misdemeanours of a select few is short sighted at best.

No i was talking about the media in general. It's all the same really.

paulie · Post by **paulie** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:32 am

NINE wrote:
Paulie wrote:
It's hilarious that the most divisive, destructive influence in society today is in such complete denial, at least at foot soldier / grunt level.
lol
not clear on the direct links between dubstep and international finance capital, but we'll all take your word for it.

Ooh, there's a lefty in the house. Maybe we should all grow our own food and sing songs about making the world a better place?

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