gain structure and mixing aka THE MONEYSHOT THREAD

[macc]

To clarify that in reference to nowaysj's post;

The key point here is appropriate dynamic control on each element, not blindly limiting everything by 20dB or whatever. No need to go crazy dealing with it.

To sort of put it another way, nowaysj's experience (' not too long ago, I'd have such a bitch of a time getting everything to fit below the ceiling, and now, HONESTLY, it is not even a concern. I still have to pay attention to dynamics, but not because I'm pressed against the ceiling') is typical of someone who 'gets it'

[NexxusProductions]

I love this thread. Epic

I used this as a general guide for my mix - it sounded okay to me, but I think it may be the mastering I am lacking.... Bahhh. LOL

Feedback is appreciated. Thanks for the amazing forum
Soundcloud

[sponsbob56]

HI guys I'm new here, and I genuwine like this thread!

But here is my question for @macc.


When do you actually put limiters on individual tracks?
I make progressive house. Maybe I'm at the wrong forum. But I think the idea is the same. Where should my main synths be at?

Greetings!

[nowaysj]

Let Macc answer you, but lemme interject my own opinion, and you can take it or leave it at your discretion: some people will tell you never to limit individual sounds, some people will tell you to chop them down... I'd say use a limiter if a sound is too peaky and is slamming up against another sound that is likewise too peaky, and there is nothing that you can do in the arrangement about that coincidence.

I do limit individual sounds. I didn't in the past, but I do now. I used to try to use a compressor to control peaks and massage transients, but I've totally ditched comps for that purpose, and now use a limiter to manage individual peaks, and a transient shaper to manage transients when necessary (think I might work a gate back into my transient toolkit, as well, but whatevs).

So you can take that or leave it. I recommend trying with and without, and observing the results. Half this shit is science bro, your own personal science. Have a question, research, form a hypothesis, conduct tests, analyze your results... See what is what for you. Everyone does this shit differently. Like some people in this thread swear by just slammmmming their master, well into the digital red, and they're being earnest, that technique produces results that they prefer. Be yourself. Unlike everything else in life, the only right answer is that which gives you pleasure.

[sponsbob56]

okee thanks!

I'm struggling with 3 problems stil

1) But what if I put my kick to -6db. And my snare hits -4db to sound loud enough in the mix. Is that okay? Or do I then use the limiter?

2) I got 2 synths going on, both they hit about -9 db. But I rederict them both to 1 channel. Now they will hit at round -3db. Is this bad to? Or it is okay because it's redirected to 1 channel?

3)After this all, my master db meter still gives me that it's peaking in the red sooo what to do still?


Does that mean that I need to all the volumes more to preserve more headroom, so it wil be easy for the mastering engineer( which will be me) ?

Thanks for the advice!

Greetings from Holland (:

[antipode]

okee thanks!

I'm struggling with 3 problems stil

1) But what if I put my kick to -6db. And my snare hits -4db to sound loud enough in the mix. Is that okay? Or do I then use the limiter?

2) I got 2 synths going on, both they hit about -9 db. But I rederict them both to 1 channel. Now they will hit at round -3db. Is this bad to? Or it is okay because it's redirected to 1 channel?

3)After this all, my master db meter still gives me that it's peaking in the red sooo what to do still?


Does that mean that I need to all the volumes more to preserve more headroom, so it wil be easy for the mastering engineer( which will be me) ?

Thanks for the advice!

Greetings from Holland (:

What does it sound like?

[ehbes]

okee thanks!

I'm struggling with 3 problems stil

1) But what if I put my kick to -6db. And my snare hits -4db to sound loud enough in the mix. Is that okay? Or do I then use the limiter?

2) I got 2 synths going on, both they hit about -9 db. But I rederict them both to 1 channel. Now they will hit at round -3db. Is this bad to? Or it is okay because it's redirected to 1 channel?

3)After this all, my master db meter still gives me that it's peaking in the red sooo what to do still?


Does that mean that I need to all the volumes more to preserve more headroom, so it wil be easy for the mastering engineer( which will be me) ?

Thanks for the advice!

Greetings from Holland (:

It peaking because your snare is way too loud.. As is your drum probably

But honestly don't mix by numbers... If it sounds too loud then it is .. If it sounds to quiet then it
Mix with your eyes not eyes

[sponsbob56]

mix with your ears you mean

So what I basically did just now, I put my drums to -12db.
The big problem are my saws/synths..


But the sound, is sounding waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better, cleaner and healthier.

But still, is it okey that they hitt more db because the channels are linked?

[ehbes]

If by linked u mean bused then no it doesn't matter . Don't take this as scripture but try putting your midrange (im assuming that's what it is ) at -10 and tell me how it sounds

[nowaysj]

okee thanks!

I'm struggling with 3 problems stil

1) But what if I put my kick to -6db. And my snare hits -4db to sound loud enough in the mix. Is that okay? Or do I then use the limiter?

2) I got 2 synths going on, both they hit about -9 db. But I rederict them both to 1 channel. Now they will hit at round -3db. Is this bad to? Or it is okay because it's redirected to 1 channel?

3)After this all, my master db meter still gives me that it's peaking in the red sooo what to do still?


Does that mean that I need to all the volumes more to preserve more headroom, so it wil be easy for the mastering engineer( which will be me) ?

Thanks for the advice!

Greetings from Holland (:

It seems like you are still mixing up against the ceiling? Like you are still struggling to get all of your sounds together under the ceiling of 0db. Forget about that, man. I think it has been mentioned that a good level for the kick is around -12db. I go lower, actually. Just turn your audio device, or whatever you use to send a signal to your speakers, UP. Set your kick so that it is peaking at -12db, and then turn up your speakers until they're almost too loud, now write/mix like that.

The whole point of this system here, and it really is dead simple, I mean it really couldn't be simpler... mix your sounds with plenty of headroom. Honestly, if you mixed at -20db it would be FINE, and better than mixing at -3db. That is the whole point of this system, so that you don't have to struggle to keep sounds below the ceiling, your only consideration is, "How is the sound's volume relative to the whole mix?"

ONCE you get that sorted, then think about controlling your peaks so that you can increase the average level of the track.

[sponsbob56]

wow thanks guys!

I think I'm trying to understand it. hehe. I use fruity loops myself.
I use the standard Fruity Eq 2. but is it perhaps better to use another equalizer for better quality ?
For example the iZotope 5 eq, or the waves, or Sonnox?

[shroomhead1]

honestly i get the best (in my own ears) results with at least the snare peaking at 0 db... otherwise it just gets drowned or wishy washy even though it's way louder than everything else in the mix. I say there is no general formula

[blinx]

this thread really needs to be a required read before you can post any qustions lol

[ehbes]

honestly i get the best (in my own ears) results with at least the snare peaking at 0 db... otherwise it just gets drowned or wishy washy even though it's way louder than everything else in the mix. I say there is no general formula

No you just need to learn eq'ing
Witha snare at 0 db, whenever your snare hits your gonna be clipping

[shroomhead1]

honestly i get the best (in my own ears) results with at least the snare peaking at 0 db... otherwise it just gets drowned or wishy washy even though it's way louder than everything else in the mix. I say there is no general formula

No you just need to learn eq'ing
Witha snare at 0 db, whenever your snare hits your gonna be clipping

a little side chaining and it won't also i deliberately clip some of my main snares before they go into the master so they keep sounding like the loudest thing in the mix and don't lose their 200 Hz ish thunk. i myself like a very overdriven sound but you can get warm soothing results with that style of editing- i used to not do that and I can EQ properly now but even if I notch the thunking bassy part of my snare out of everything else it still doesn't get through with the snare/tom combo hitting at -6. what I'm saying is I've stopped using numbers. Because reyling on that gave me muddy and undesirable results. I wanna sound how I like, not like an indie band

[sponsbob56]

So basically I did everything to gain more headroom and masterd it afterwards.

So I compared my tracks to others like Nicky Romero's and Alesso. And my song just sounds like 15% weaker then theirs?
But it's especially the kick that sounds more Fat and fuller & low ends !

How come ?

[KoenDercksen]

So basically I did everything to gain more headroom and masterd it afterwards.

So I compared my tracks to others like Nicky Romero's and Alesso. And my song just sounds like 15% weaker then theirs?
But it's especially the kick that sounds more Fat and fuller & low ends !

How come ?

Sample selection, processing, and experience are a big part of professional sounding tracks. Just practice!

[skimpi]

honestly i get the best (in my own ears) results with at least the snare peaking at 0 db... otherwise it just gets drowned or wishy washy even though it's way louder than everything else in the mix. I say there is no general formula

No you just need to learn eq'ing
Witha snare at 0 db, whenever your snare hits your gonna be clipping

a little side chaining and it won't also i deliberately clip some of my main snares before they go into the master so they keep sounding like the loudest thing in the mix and don't lose their 200 Hz ish thunk. i myself like a very overdriven sound but you can get warm soothing results with that style of editing- i used to not do that and I can EQ properly now but even if I notch the thunking bassy part of my snare out of everything else it still doesn't get through with the snare/tom combo hitting at -6. what I'm saying is I've stopped using numbers. Because reyling on that gave me muddy and undesirable results. I wanna sound how I like, not like an indie band

Clipping isnt the same as overdrive, overdrive drives the signal, clipping just cuts off anything that goes over zero. If you want your snare to be louder than everything else, and for it to be louder it has to be at 0db, then just bring everything else down, so that it only needs to be at like -8 or summat to be heard. Usually the loudest thing in your mix will be the bass/sub, thats why when the bass kicks in the levels are up at the top, if they are up the top when your snare is hitting, your doing something wrong.

[shroomhead1]

Clipping isnt the same as overdrive, overdrive drives the signal, clipping just cuts off anything that goes over zero. If you want your snare to be louder than everything else, and for it to be louder it has to be at 0db, then just bring everything else down, so that it only needs to be at like -8 or summat to be heard. Usually the loudest thing in your mix will be the bass/sub, thats why when the bass kicks in the levels are up at the top, if they are up the top when your snare is hitting, your doing something wrong.

i don't know i still get the results though and my mixes sound like i want em to more and more

[ehbes]

Clipping isnt the same as overdrive, overdrive drives the signal, clipping just cuts off anything that goes over zero. If you want your snare to be louder than everything else, and for it to be louder it has to be at 0db, then just bring everything else down, so that it only needs to be at like -8 or summat to be heard. Usually the loudest thing in your mix will be the bass/sub, thats why when the bass kicks in the levels are up at the top, if they are up the top when your snare is hitting, your doing something wrong.

i don't know i still get the results though and my mixes sound like i want em to more and more

is it peaking over 0 db?