I'm gonna be one of the first people to have a UK ID card

[alien pimp]

I think the UK would probably fall apart if no foriengers came here to work.

I think if too many came, it would also fall apart.

It's all in the balance.

exactly

and this balance is gained naturally, not enforced

this is true, but balances that are gained naturally are gained through society growing with these issues. if all immigration controls were immediately removed then the sudden influx would not be a natural change and there would inevitably be a crisis, which we would probably recover from but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a big impact

impact is normal after years of forced imbalance

[alien pimp]

Since I blocked Alien Pimp, this discussion actually looks much more interesting and intelligent.

of course you blocked me, ugly people hate mirrors
i know some others who blocked me but occasionally checked my messages "out of curiosity"

how else could you deal with your own mental impotence and disgraceful character?

your argument is like: the murderer already has guns, why bother if he buys one more?
coming after the one earlier like: this murderer never used this weapon before so there's no reason to suspect he'll use it in the future, now that he got his hands on it

very logical indeed!

btw brave smart guy, did you ever use the "you can't spell" argument against the people who support your ideas?
i have a hunch illiteracy is more widespread among the people who share your point of view, wanna bet?

wanna bet i spell better than 90% of the uk citizens, even if for me you're just a country from far away where people do good arts and drive on the wrong side of the road?

how lame is it to bring that up and what other reason is there to do it except to divert attention from your own shit?

[firky]

migration patterns in a Europe

As the new notions of European identity.....immigration is contributing to the construction of a new, collective, European “we”.

for fucks sake.... how many times....

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT EUROPE!!!!!!!!11112

So this is your counter argument? your inability to see past europe and apply the theory to other areas of the world, you fucking idiot badger. I honestly thought you had a brain in there. If you see the book posted below you'll see that the theory of open borders across europe is applied to other parts of the world, just like you wanted, but clearly you haven't read anything about the subject. Indeed your own retort is that you work for the UKBA.

Can I please see this information that I have the inability to comprehend? I have asked for it several times and all you're doing is getting more and more frustrated because of your own lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject.

By losing your rag you're just reinforcing my opinion that you don't know what you are talking about.

When you start typing in capitals in BIG FONTS you have lost the argument and any respect of opinion. "WAAAAAAAAAH!!!! I'LL CRY AND CRY UNTIL I AM SICK ITS NOT FAIR!!!!" Your arse, my plate.

[firky]

I think the UK would probably fall apart if no foriengers came here to work.

I think if too many came, it would also fall apart.

It's all in the balance.

exactly

Hang on badger, I thought you weren't talking about europe?

[magma]

I think the UK would probably fall apart if no foriengers came here to work.

I think if too many came, it would also fall apart.

It's all in the balance.

exactly

Hang on badger, I thought you weren't talking about europe?

Who mentioned Europe? Some, in fact possibly most, of our most successful immigration during the 20th century was from Asia and Africa.

It still doesn't mean that it's sensible to have completely free borders all the time. Borders should be transparent to those in need, but those moving for economic reasons, well they have to wait until there's room in the market.

I'm pretty sure there's still room in the market though... I don't see a reason to tighten up yet.

[alien pimp]

Who mentioned Europe? Some, in fact possibly most, of our most successful immigration during the 20th century was from our former colonies

a small edit that might contribute something

[firky]

Who mentioned Europe? Some, in fact possibly most, of our most successful immigration during the 20th century was from Asia and Africa.

It still doesn't mean that it's sensible to have completely free borders all the time. Borders should be transparent to those in need, but those moving for economic reasons, well they have to wait until there's room in the market.

I'm pretty sure there's still room in the market though... I don't see a reason to tighten up yet.

It's way back in the thread somewhere. It's what kicked all this off but badger is changing it to suit his agenda and I am pretty sure that the UK is part of Europe. At least you can have a sensible discussion and an educated one at that, badger hasn't done anything other than say he works for the UKBA and rely on the ad hominem.

I agree that there does need to be some kind of border insofar as to protect (for want of a beter word) sovereignty, the Welsh would hate it if we lifted that border but the notion that the world economy would fail if there was no borders is rubbish, it's just an old imperialist way of thinking. As Eddie Izzard said, "do you have a flag?"

[djacroama]

It's more the principle that offends me rather than any practical fear.. I normally carry something with my name/face on it anyway (driving license usually) and still need to use it surprisingly often to prove my age, but I hate the idea of being forced to carry something.

same, nearly 25 and i still get ID'd for cigarettes.

my mum says im lucky i look young, i say its embarasing when i dont have my ID on me and a whole newsagents full of people pretty much laugh you out haha

[badger]

So this is your counter argument? your inability to see past europe and apply the theory to other areas of the world, you fucking idiot badger. I honestly thought you had a brain in there. If you see the book posted below you'll see that the theory of open borders across europe is applied to other parts of the world, just like you wanted, but clearly you haven't read anything about the subject. Indeed your own retort is that you work for the UKBA.

Can I please see this information that I have the inability to comprehend? I have asked for it several times and all you're doing is getting more and more frustrated because of your own lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject.

By losing your rag you're just reinforcing my opinion that you don't know what you are talking about.

When you start typing in capitals in BIG FONTS you have lost the argument and any respect of opinion. "WAAAAAAAAAH!!!! I'LL CRY AND CRY UNTIL I AM SICK ITS NOT FAIR!!!!" Your arse, my plate.

i'm not losing my rag, i'm just making it 100% clear because you seem completely unable to grasp the concept that i'm not talking about europe or the EU. for the most part europe is far better off than the rest of the world so to extend studies about european countries to the people of africa or other third world counties is pointless

i'll read those articles later but i'm busy imposing suffering and despair on as many immigrants as possible atm

I think the UK would probably fall apart if no foriengers came here to work.

I think if too many came, it would also fall apart.

It's all in the balance.

exactly

Hang on badger, I thought you weren't talking about europe?

eh? where is europe mentioned there?

[firky]

So this is your counter argument? your inability to see past europe and apply the theory to other areas of the world, you fucking idiot badger. I honestly thought you had a brain in there. If you see the book posted below you'll see that the theory of open borders across europe is applied to other parts of the world, just like you wanted, but clearly you haven't read anything about the subject. Indeed your own retort is that you work for the UKBA.

Can I please see this information that I have the inability to comprehend? I have asked for it several times and all you're doing is getting more and more frustrated because of your own lack of knowledge and understanding on the subject.

By losing your rag you're just reinforcing my opinion that you don't know what you are talking about.

When you start typing in capitals in BIG FONTS you have lost the argument and any respect of opinion. "WAAAAAAAAAH!!!! I'LL CRY AND CRY UNTIL I AM SICK ITS NOT FAIR!!!!" Your arse, my plate.

i'm not losing my rag, i'm just making it 100% clear because you seem completely unable to grasp the concept that i'm not talking about europe or the EU. for the most part europe is far better off than the rest of the world so to extend studies about european countries to the people of africa or other third world counties is pointless

i'll read those articles later but i'm busy imposing suffering and despair on as many immigrants as possible atm

I think the UK would probably fall apart if no foriengers came here to work.

I think if too many came, it would also fall apart.

It's all in the balance.

exactly

Hang on badger, I thought you weren't talking about europe?

eh? where is europe mentioned there?

Britain has been a member of europe since 1973 and to say it truely part of europe because there's 18 miles of water between us at worst is xenophobic and at best old hat.

Again. Can I please have this information that I have the inability to comprehend?


I have a client in at 1:30pm, I am going to start callin him badger

No it's not pointles that is why leading social scientists use europe as a model to apply their theory to the rest of the world, they're not some bod at the UKBA, they're leading academics in social sciences. Fuck sake, bow you're making me frustrated!!

[badger]

It's way back in the thread somewhere. It's what kicked all this off but badger is changing it to suit his agenda and I am pretty sure that the UK is part of Europe. At least you can have a sensible discussion and an educated one at that, badger hasn't done anything other than say he works for the UKBA and rely on the ad hominem.

right, looks like you've completely misunderstood (no surprise there). i am talking about this in relation to britain, which is obviously part of europe, but as i've said countless times i was talking about britain in the context of there being no checks on WORLDWIDE immigration, and not EU immigration, which you seem to be bent on discussing

[badger]

Britain has been a member of europe since 1973 and to say it truely part of europe because there's 18 miles of water between us at worst is xenophobic and at best old hat.

Again. Can I please have this information that I have the inability to comprehend?


I have a client in at 1:30pm, I am going to start callin him badger

No it's not pointles that is why leading social scientists use europe as a model to apply their theory to the rest of the world, they're not some bod at the UKBA, they're leading academics in social sciences. Fuck sake, bow you're making me frustrated!!

[firky]

i am talking about this in relation to britain, which is obviously part of europe, but as i've said countless times i was talking about britain in the context of there being no checks on WORLDWIDE immigration, and not EU immigration, which you seem to be bent on discussing

Erm it was only about three posts up you didn't realise that the UK was part of europe - it was only when I pointed it out to you that you changed your tune. Again.

eh? where is europe mentioned there?

And if you go back you'll see that I too started talking about the UK and how immigration helps the economy, you keep changing the argument because you're losing.

I posted shit loads of stuff about migrant workers supporting the NHS, actually paying more in taxes than they take in benefits, about 90% of them being employed, about most of them being better skilled and qualified than "native" workers and your retort to that was you were talking about in an interntaional context, that's when I started talking about europe and it being a model for international open borders. Now fast forward to this post and you say you were talking about britain.

make your mind up.

Can i please have this information that I can't comprehend?

You lack the intelligence to think in a lateral manner. I swear you're doiung it on purpose!

[magma]

the notion that the world economy would fail if there was no borders is rubbish, it's just an old imperialist way of thinking.

I think this is where we're all getting confused. The world economy probably wouldn't be badly affected if you opened up all the borders, in fact, I think it would absolutely boom. Borders are about protectionism and the future of the economy is about globalisation.

What you have to be sensitive to is that if you drastically change local policies (and UK immigration controls are a local issue on the world stage) then you can drastically alter local conditions.

If you were to advertise to the world tomorrow that anyone could turn up at Dover and claim Social Security, no matter what their background, then you could feasibly bring the country to it's knees. It may only be a short-term issue, I think that in the long term the "natural balance" which Alien Pimp refers to would kick in. It would be likely to cause short term (50 years or so) discomfort though.

Softly softly catchy monkey.... we'll get there, have faith. You have to deal with short-term, local opinions on this sort of thing a lot - afterall, the first thing most people try to do is look after their own family.

[firky]

That lass who complained about you last week is going to have a shit fit when she sees you typing with clenched fists, badger

[badger]

you really are a complete plank

i was talking about this in the relation to britain - part of the EU - and talking about what would happen if all worldwide controls on immigration were abolished, and then you keep spouting information about EU immigration. i've already agreed with you that EU migration has proven to be a benefit to the economy but i was never talking about EU migration to begin with so please stop going on about it

[firky]

you really are a complete plank

i was talking about this in the relation to britain - part of the EU - and talking about what would happen if all worldwide controls on immigration were abolished, and then you keep spouting information about EU immigration. i've already agreed with you that EU migration has proven to be a benefit to the economy but i was never talking about EU migration to begin with so please stop going on about it

Someone mentioned the UK, you didn't realise the significance of "I thought you weren't talking about the europe"... come on, stop the squirming.

Even if you were talking about what would happen if immigration controls would be abolished I posted shit loads of evidence both with a domestic, european and interntaional agenda that counter-acts that opinion from leading social scientists, some of which are the best theorists in the world and you dismiss them. I shall reiterate again for you, the reason I keep going on about european migration is because it's a proven method that open borders do work, a point that you agree with. Now apply that model to the rest of the world, like the leading social scientists and theorists and you'll see that it does work. You said it wouldn't work because of something to do with Africa or Asia (forget which, sorry), which in part is true, as magma said there would be a period of time where things would be 'difficult' to say the least but once open borders were part of the fabric of society on an international scale, then to coin magma again, it would be a boom for the world. To argue against all that by saying you work for the UKBA is arrogant and really does yourself no favours.

I don't care if you disagree with me, that's the way stuff is but to denounce it completely is ignorant, arrogant and smells vaguely of Daily Mail.

Got to go!

Can I have please have this information that I have the inability to comprehend?

[DRTY]

[badger]

i mentioned that i worked for UKBA because you said i had no idea about immigration, i did not say that as proof that i was right. i don't read the daily mail and completely disagree with pretty much everything they stand for. i even said what you just quoted magma as saying so to say that i argued against that is just typical of you completely missing the point throughout this thread

[alien pimp]

anyway, the cards' info would be stored in a database, right?
they are a step further into digitalizing your persona, right?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 492669.stm