Is this just an 808? (Macc where are you?)

[paradigm_x]

Neve and SPL are hardware companies, UAD is a DSP card for running plugins, I havent got the hardware unfortunately, but the UA plugins which are awesome. SPL also does a native transient designer.





The full 33609 models all the distortion the original hardware would provide- UA also give you a SE version which doesnt model the distrotion which is better for bass (in most cases!).

I love my UADs, best plugins by a country mile. You do need to pony up for the cards as well tho, but well worth every penny IMO.

The ADM is a drum synth which does 808/909/606 sounds - http://www.audiorealism.se/adm/adm_announcement.htm

[serox]

The ADM is a drum synth which does 808/909/606 sounds - http://www.audiorealism.se/adm/adm_announcement.htm

Yeh I use ADM but it doesnt get close to the kick in the Loefah track.

Please upload your version if you think you can do it, lets see it:)

[paradigm_x]

yeah at work atm, and my daw isnt internet connected.

Will do asap.

Not saying its the smae, 10mins of playing with ADM + Neve.

Bit of EQ and the fatso and i reckon im 95% there tbh

[serox]

yeah at work atm, and my daw isnt internet connected.

Will do asap.

Not saying its the smae, 10mins of playing with ADM + Neve.

Bit of EQ and the fatso and i reckon im 95% there tbh

Well see:)

[nowaysj]

A few things before I begin.

I love your posts lately serox. Fucking production forum questions of the first degree.

This shit always goes way longer/is more difficult because of your lack of fundamentals. Which is fine. I'm just saying you got a lot of basics to learn. But you are being absolutely tenacious about it, so I hope you will be learning this stuff soon. I can't remember exactly what your monitoring situation is like, but I recall it being less than ideal. For the level of focus that you are bringing to the actual construction/production of sound, I really think you should try and sort your monitoring a little better, so you can more accurately make your comparisons and pick apart and reconstruct sounds.

To all the people that are helping serox, if you haven't heard some of his toons, serox's got musical talent, and I expect some good music to be coming from this dood, so big ups to y'all for helping this gifted dood come along.

+++++

With that being said, a few things about flstudio, and why I've gone on about it being such a pain in the ass, because it is the best and worst daw all at the same time.

Fl and layering drum sounds - when you are layering two low pitched sounds, you need to be able to zoom way in and see their basic sinus structure. You need to align to the best of your abilities the peaks and troughs between each sample, so that one sample isn't troughing while the other is peaking - this will kill your sound. FL studio just does not do this well, because you can't zoom in that far in the playlist. In cubase, this is no problem. You can zoom in on, what they call it, arrange page? you can zoom right in, see your wave forms, match up waves so your peaks match your peaks and your troughs match your troughs.


FL and parallel compression - don't fucking do it, unless you have vst plugins with NO latency. (Think sonalksis has VERY little) Fl's mixer (for the time being) does not do automatic plugin delay compensation. So if you mix a processed signal back in with your originate signal, it is going to be ALL FUCKED UP. The compressed signal can be several or even many ms late, causing nasty phasing problems, or just totally fucking your transients (and yes your punch).

These are two fairly technical problems that people don't wanna hear about or just roll their eyes at and dismiss as flstudio hateration, but nothing could be farther from the truth. I love working in fruity, but these are pretty big problems... The auto pdc is supposed to be fixed with like a .5 release or something like that, don't quote me on when, but was told it will be fixed.

On the project settings tab, you can set the ppq of the project to 960 which will give you a pretty good zoom on the playlist, but in 9 this is going to kick your cpu usage in the NUTS. Like really bad on a full project.

++++++++

With that said, the wife is sleeping 8 inches away from me right there -----> so can't be blasting 808's right now. Also on lappy speakers, so. I'll listen tomorrow.

Keep up the good posts bro, and trying to understand this shit. Your efforts will not go unrewarded.

[serox]

cheers man.

My monitors are not ideal but I am very use to them and walk around the room. I also have a pair of Ultimate Ears Super.Fi and sennheiser hp 25 headphones that I test things on as well as a pair of £5 headphones.

Now I have spotted the difference in the kick in question and a standard 808 I can hear the difference a mile away on any setup.

I am also trying to get it right using Reason 4 and I get the same results as I do in FL.

Still the closest I have got is by using the 909 over the 808 with some Eqing.

Hopefully I can get the hang of this production game soon:)

[nowaysj]

If you think its 909 over the 808, zoom way the fuck in and make sure the waveforms are lining up. This will help with the punch.

Re your monitors - yeah you can spot the difference, but that difference can be augmented by your room, or your speakers or both. You can easily be hearing things that others are not because of your monitoring situation.

[serox]

If you think its 909 over the 808, zoom way the fuck in and make sure the waveforms are lining up. This will help with the punch.

I am saying this just by using my ears. I love both the 808 and 909 and have heard them a million times, but I could be wrong.

Trying to work it by zooming in and looking at it will only confuse me more I think. There is so much that could have been done that would make the hit look different imo

With using my in ear headphones I can get it sounding good, I will upload later what I have done.

[serox]

If you think its 909 over the 808, zoom way the fuck in and make sure the waveforms are lining up. This will help with the punch.

Re your monitors - yeah you can spot the difference, but that difference can be augmented by your room, or your speakers or both. You can easily be hearing things that others are not because of your monitoring situation.

thats why I test on different audio sources:)

I do have problems with the setup in some parts of the room but I know where they sound right also:)

I can hear the difference on a computers built in speakers now too.

[nowaysj]

Trying to work it by zooming in and looking at it will only confuse me more I think. There is so much that could have been done that would make the hit look different imo

Okay you thick bastard. You should put your 808 sample in the playlist, and on the track right below it put your 909 sample. Zoom way in so you can plainly see the upsweep and downsweep of the 808's waveform. Make sure that when the 808 is going up, the 909 is also going up. Make sure the peaks of the 808's wave matches up with the peaks of the 909 wave, and the bottoms of the 808 matches the bottoms of the 909. If they are not lining up, stretch the 909 to match the 808 as much as possible.

If you don't do this layering right, you may end up with the bottoms of 909 waveform matching up with the tops of the 808 waveform which will make your layer sound... sound like shit.

[serox]

No need to call me thick! I get what you are saying and I am saying I prefer to do it with my ears instead:)

thanks

[nowaysj]

Okay, look at this picture. When you are layering, and you are being an anal bastard like you seem to always be (good thing imo if you can keep your flow/hardon), it's not enough just to layer up two kicks in the fpc, or to trigger two samples in the step sequencer at the same time. You should actually craft your sound.

Put your samples together, align them, envelope them, and resample them.

Here in this picture, look at how the peaks and troughs line up between these samples. This will make your sound louder but also more coherent, less mucked up.

Also notice that you can use envelopes to use different parts of each sample, say the attack portion of one sample and the sustain portion of another, and you can fine tune and blend them together.

[serox]

Okay, look at this picture. When you are layering, and you are being an anal bastard like you seem to always be (good thing imo if you can keep your flow/hardon), it's not enough just to layer up two kicks in the fpc, or to trigger two samples in the step sequencer at the same time. You should actually craft your sound.

Put your samples together, align them, envelope them, and resample them.

Here in this picture, look at how the peaks and troughs line up between these samples. This will make your sound louder but also more coherent, less mucked up.

Also notice that you can use envelopes to use different parts of each sample, say the attack portion of one sample and the sustain portion of another, and you can fine tune and blend them together.

Cool I get you. I do try and do this but just by ear, i will give it ago on screen

You have zoomed into two hits on the clips area right? how did you get the envolope automation lines up on there like that tho?

[serox]

here is something I just put together to show you. No compressors used and no doubt someone will say the tones are not right or there is phasing issues:)

http://depositfiles.com/files/dakdqjfus

[nowaysj]

Always and ultimately you'll have to go by ear. But if loe himself came in here and said yeah, I layered a 909 over an 808, and you did the same, but yours sounded differently, this is the kind of thing to look at - the alignment of bass waves. You can have two waves that are at a similar pitch, but out of phase, just totally wipe each other out, or wipe each other out for a moment... like the punch area.

To draw those envelopes - one easy way is just to click in the upper left hand of the audio clip, in the drop down choose the last option "automate" and choose level. That's one way. If you are using a drum sampler you can use your adsr settings. Or if using the step sequencer, click the sample name, go to the "ins" tab, and activate the volume envelope, and have a fiddle. Those envelopes on the ins tab are not that hot though.

[paradigm_x]

OK so i had a quick play tonight

http://www.paradigmx.com/808foolin.mp3

from ADM

Straight
Then compressed (10-20ms attack, 200ms decay, around 4dB GR @ 6:1 ratio)#
Then Lowpassed at around 1200hz to get rid of the ubertops
Then added around 3dB bass boost with large Q at 60 Hz
Then a bit of saturation (poss a bit too much).

Not claiming its 100% but you get the idea.

All the punch coming from the initial compressor.

[paradigm_x]

here is something I just put together to show you. No compressors used and no doubt someone will say the tones are not right or there is phasing issues:)

http://depositfiles.com/files/dakdqjfus

that sounds alright. what dont you like about it?

[nowaysj]

finally got a chance to listen to this on real monitors.

Paradigm, I think you got too much punch in there. It's almost clicky.

Finally listening to Lo's, it doesn't sound layered to me. It sounds like either envelopes or compression, or even just synth work. From what I heard, he doesn't synth his drums (other than that adm, if you count that), so likely just compression.

Serox, listening to yours, it sound very close, maybe not as dry, maybe too loud in the sustain phase. Maybe a little shorter decay and a little lower sustain level (just speaking of envelopes here).

If you are using fl's step sequencer to sequence sampled 808's, don't forget you can use curves rather than linear shapes on the adsr envelopes. Look at the top of the graphical display of the envelop, there is a button next to time called TNS, suppose that stands for Tension, anyway, you can use that for curves to more accurately shape the envelope to your liking.

What you're doing there sounds good though, whether you're trying to make that exact Lo 808 or not.

Can you post up the 808 sample you are using, I'd like to envelope it and run it through a compressor to see what I can get.

[paradigm_x]

yeah i was exaggerating it to show compressor...




inspired me to do a 808 tune tho - would normally be bussed via a compressor in the drum group and the master output group as well



[OT fucking missing camera drivers driving me insane ]

[nowaysj]

inspired me to do a 808 tune tho

Yeah, I think I have 4 or 5 serox inspired tracks that started the same way, ha ha ha, bastard.