i couldnt stop saying mother fucker after last nights episode. that was the best episode this season so far....
soo fuckin good
The Wire Season 5 Discussion (BEWARE - FINALE SPOILERS!)
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Saw episodes 5 and 6 last night 
Can't even remember half of what happened... I'm still getting that feeling of everything being a bit rushed/packed in, but still fantastic stuff. I'm noticing all these parallels between the workings of the newspaper and the police department/drug gangs. In a way you could compare McNulty to either the anti-authority guy (don't know his name, shamefully) at the newspaper, or with the fabricating journalist who's out for the glory.
Interesting how Bunk's quote from Goerring (or was it Hitler?) ''the bigger the lie the more they believe'' underpins the whole season. All that double crossing, politics, manipulation.
Oh and Omar- is he Mr Invincible now or something? lol
Can't even remember half of what happened... I'm still getting that feeling of everything being a bit rushed/packed in, but still fantastic stuff. I'm noticing all these parallels between the workings of the newspaper and the police department/drug gangs. In a way you could compare McNulty to either the anti-authority guy (don't know his name, shamefully) at the newspaper, or with the fabricating journalist who's out for the glory.
Interesting how Bunk's quote from Goerring (or was it Hitler?) ''the bigger the lie the more they believe'' underpins the whole season. All that double crossing, politics, manipulation.
Oh and Omar- is he Mr Invincible now or something? lol
yeah i know what you mean with the pacing, they are obviously trying to bring a lot of storylines to a conclusion.Corpsey wrote:Saw episodes 5 and 6 last night
Can't even remember half of what happened... I'm still getting that feeling of everything being a bit rushed/packed in, but still fantastic stuff. I'm noticing all these parallels between the workings of the newspaper and the police department/drug gangs. In a way you could compare McNulty to either the anti-authority guy (don't know his name, shamefully) at the newspaper, or with the fabricating journalist who's out for the glory.
Interesting how Bunk's quote from Goerring (or was it Hitler?) ''the bigger the lie the more they believe'' underpins the whole season. All that double crossing, politics, manipulation.
Oh and Omar- is he Mr Invincible now or something? lol
I think they have mentioned in the past that Omar is almost a 'supernatural/superhero' charachter..he pulled a bit of a spiderman, but they didnt show if he managed to grab hold of anything on his fall so that covered it a bit.
re the Bunk quote, Simon said that virtually every charachter would be 'compromised' in some way this season..
"At the workplace, you shouldn’t look at problems in a traditional way. There might be better solutions. Dare to be creative," is Wang’ archlord power leveling s advice."
I'm wondering if Lester and McNulty are going to get done over this fake serial killer thing.
Savino got short shrift lol... The weird thing about how its paced is that some characters are appearing and disappearing in a matter of minutes, it's like an extended last episode cameo fest.
This season has felt weird to me, it's like a heightened version of The Wire... I can't say I've liked it as much as the last season, or as much as the first season. And I think the fact that its all being stuffed in so much is behind that.
But as I say every time- despite these reservations, still head and shoulders above anything else around.
Savino got short shrift lol... The weird thing about how its paced is that some characters are appearing and disappearing in a matter of minutes, it's like an extended last episode cameo fest.
This season has felt weird to me, it's like a heightened version of The Wire... I can't say I've liked it as much as the last season, or as much as the first season. And I think the fact that its all being stuffed in so much is behind that.
But as I say every time- despite these reservations, still head and shoulders above anything else around.
this season is surreal. i like how old characters are popping up and getting offed or just not being shown again. liking how they show some dudes just can't get away from the street and pay the consequence wether they deserve it or not. savino getting offed was karma for the whole set up with kima in the first season imo.
"Sometimes I do see people saggin, with dirty underwear, and it is indeed a sad thing."
Bump for more discussion
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW
Was watching the latest season and bits of all the other seasons this week, and it reminded me of what a great complete work the show is. There's all these parallels and links between plotlines/scenes/characters, sometimes across a gap of seasons. And there's a lot of parts in episodes that make a lot more sense when you've seen all the other episodes. Season 2, for example, seemed like a bit of a departure at the time, but now I can see how important the greek connect is to the co-op, and how important the co-op is to Marlow... also how important the exposure of political corruption arising in part from city wide poverty/industrial-economic decline is to the show. And now it all seems crucial.
There's themes which occur throughout every season, too. The theme of parenthood comes up again and again- I thought in this latest season that the idea of Kima (can't spell any of the characters names unfortunately) retrieving the kid from the scene of the murder (a scene in which Michael, who was of course molested by his step brother's father, was unable to kill the fleeing child) as a prompt towards her reestablishing a link with her partner's child (all while McNulty is drifting further and further away from his family) was typically complex and elegant. And that's just one example, not very deeply considered.
Was also thinking last night about how its interesting the way the writers/actors create sympathy for figures who do unsympathetic things. I think the only real difference with Marlow/Snoop/Chris is that you haven't really been shown their human side that much. I definitely like Avon over Marlow, and yet when you remember what was done to Omar's boyfriend, or Wallace etc. you realise that he's just as ruthless as Marlow. That comes up in Body and Poot's conversation in Season 4 before Body gets taken out, in which Poot's asking Body what the difference is between Lil Chris getting killed for possibly snitching and them having to kill Wallace... (great line in that scene too ''I thought you said the world was getting warmer?'' ''World going one way, people the other'') Body is another great example of a character who has done bad things but seems like a good guy. That's one of the best things about The Wire- it doesn't have bad guys/good guys (or at least, it didn't until Marlow etc. turned up)- it has human beings, some of whom are pushed into acts of cruelty by the structure they find themselves trapped within and defined by.
One other thing- isn't it sad about Randy? You can see that he has had to become like that to survive in the group home, another character who seems to be sinking fast. This final season increasingly feels like the fifth act in a tragedy, where everyone ends up dead or corrupt. I see a bloodbath coming.
POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW
Was watching the latest season and bits of all the other seasons this week, and it reminded me of what a great complete work the show is. There's all these parallels and links between plotlines/scenes/characters, sometimes across a gap of seasons. And there's a lot of parts in episodes that make a lot more sense when you've seen all the other episodes. Season 2, for example, seemed like a bit of a departure at the time, but now I can see how important the greek connect is to the co-op, and how important the co-op is to Marlow... also how important the exposure of political corruption arising in part from city wide poverty/industrial-economic decline is to the show. And now it all seems crucial.
There's themes which occur throughout every season, too. The theme of parenthood comes up again and again- I thought in this latest season that the idea of Kima (can't spell any of the characters names unfortunately) retrieving the kid from the scene of the murder (a scene in which Michael, who was of course molested by his step brother's father, was unable to kill the fleeing child) as a prompt towards her reestablishing a link with her partner's child (all while McNulty is drifting further and further away from his family) was typically complex and elegant. And that's just one example, not very deeply considered.
Was also thinking last night about how its interesting the way the writers/actors create sympathy for figures who do unsympathetic things. I think the only real difference with Marlow/Snoop/Chris is that you haven't really been shown their human side that much. I definitely like Avon over Marlow, and yet when you remember what was done to Omar's boyfriend, or Wallace etc. you realise that he's just as ruthless as Marlow. That comes up in Body and Poot's conversation in Season 4 before Body gets taken out, in which Poot's asking Body what the difference is between Lil Chris getting killed for possibly snitching and them having to kill Wallace... (great line in that scene too ''I thought you said the world was getting warmer?'' ''World going one way, people the other'') Body is another great example of a character who has done bad things but seems like a good guy. That's one of the best things about The Wire- it doesn't have bad guys/good guys (or at least, it didn't until Marlow etc. turned up)- it has human beings, some of whom are pushed into acts of cruelty by the structure they find themselves trapped within and defined by.
One other thing- isn't it sad about Randy? You can see that he has had to become like that to survive in the group home, another character who seems to be sinking fast. This final season increasingly feels like the fifth act in a tragedy, where everyone ends up dead or corrupt. I see a bloodbath coming.
ANOTHER thing- think its in season 4: there's a scene in which prop joe, cheese and slim are discussing whether or not to give marlow the hook up to the greeks. cheese says 'what if he goes around you to get at them?' and joe says 'yeah but they know me, they don't know him.'
Leaving aside the question of WHY the greeks trust marlow now (how did that happen?)- here's a flash forward to the next season. I'm liking this latest season a lot more now I'm viewing it as fitting into a wider storyline, I think if someone saw the latest season without seeing the preceding four seasons a lot of it would make no sense at all.
Leaving aside the question of WHY the greeks trust marlow now (how did that happen?)- here's a flash forward to the next season. I'm liking this latest season a lot more now I'm viewing it as fitting into a wider storyline, I think if someone saw the latest season without seeing the preceding four seasons a lot of it would make no sense at all.
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rickyricardo
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Episode 6 was like a mini version of "Where are they now?" Seeing Nick Sobotka pop up out of nowhere to rip into Carcetti was a treat. It's something that would only make sense to you after having seen Season 2 and knowing how hard his uncle fought to keep that part of the docks.Corpsey wrote:Was watching the latest season and bits of all the other seasons this week, and it reminded me of what a great complete work the show is. There's all these parallels and links between plotlines/scenes/characters, sometimes across a gap of seasons.
And then poor Randy. Great line when Bunk tries to intimidate him into giving a statement, and then Randy goes "You gonna give me time?".
Was also thinking last night about how its interesting the way the writers/actors create sympathy for figures who do unsympathetic things. I think the only real difference with Marlow/Snoop/Chris is that you haven't really been shown their human side that much.
That's actually my biggest complaint about the last two seasons, which is that Marlo, for the most part, has been a totally one-dimensional character, which is kind of out of step with how fully developed most of the other characters are. We have no real insight into who Marlo is, where he came from, what motivates him (other than power and money), and why he does what he does. Avon and Stringer had far greater layers of complexity to them. We knew what brought them to where they are now, and where they wanted to go (two very different places...as we ultimately found out). Marlo, on the other hand, is such a blackbox. Why is Chris so loyal to him? Do they go back to childhood, like Avon and Stringer?
So he basically runs the city drug trade....now what? We have no way of knowing or even guessing...
Granted, even when this small seeming inconsistency, it's still the best show on TV by far.
You'd have thought, with how carefully written the rest of the show is, that this two dimensional/inhuman quality in Marlow is intentional. I suppose it could come down to a practical constraint- after all, up until say Season 4 Marlow wasn't the main focus, he was always seen in relation to the fall of Avon. And now there isn't much time to flesh him out with all these storylines to finish off.
But couldn't it also be to do with the overwhelming pessimism of the shows outlook? The message to me seems generally to be - the crime is getting worse, the police are getting weaker, the media is going tits up, the politicians are all corrupt etc etc. And there's also a general feeling of the older generation looking with dismay and despair at the youth- maybe Marlow is just supposed to have had all the humanity taken out of him at a young age, just as we see a lot of kids in the show getting theirs taken? Maybe we're supposed to look at Marlow and see what a kid like Michael could end up as, and look at Michael and think that's what Marlow might have started out as?
As for him being the leader- he's supposed to have been fierce, isn't he? He had loads of murders on him before he even came to the Wire tap/Barksdale attention. Now I suppose he's high up enough to not have to risk his freedom by actually killing anyone himself. Chris might be loyal in just the same way that someone like Weebay or Slim is loyal to whoever they take orders from- some people are just natural soldiers/right-hand men. It was interesting seeing Chris with his family (?) the other week, and Marlow watching them with a smile. I reckon the show argues that its not the people themselves that are generally bad, its the situation they've come out of which has made them that way... maybe Marlow/Chris are just so ruthless because they have been taught to be by the streets. Also, maybe if we saw how Avon/Stringer got to the top in the first place we'd be as disgusted as we are by Marlow?
But couldn't it also be to do with the overwhelming pessimism of the shows outlook? The message to me seems generally to be - the crime is getting worse, the police are getting weaker, the media is going tits up, the politicians are all corrupt etc etc. And there's also a general feeling of the older generation looking with dismay and despair at the youth- maybe Marlow is just supposed to have had all the humanity taken out of him at a young age, just as we see a lot of kids in the show getting theirs taken? Maybe we're supposed to look at Marlow and see what a kid like Michael could end up as, and look at Michael and think that's what Marlow might have started out as?
As for him being the leader- he's supposed to have been fierce, isn't he? He had loads of murders on him before he even came to the Wire tap/Barksdale attention. Now I suppose he's high up enough to not have to risk his freedom by actually killing anyone himself. Chris might be loyal in just the same way that someone like Weebay or Slim is loyal to whoever they take orders from- some people are just natural soldiers/right-hand men. It was interesting seeing Chris with his family (?) the other week, and Marlow watching them with a smile. I reckon the show argues that its not the people themselves that are generally bad, its the situation they've come out of which has made them that way... maybe Marlow/Chris are just so ruthless because they have been taught to be by the streets. Also, maybe if we saw how Avon/Stringer got to the top in the first place we'd be as disgusted as we are by Marlow?
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RubiconMan
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think marlo described it as an insurance policy, ie still have marlo buying "if" summat where to happen to prop joe. but that leads me to wonder why the greek would prefer to do business with marlo over prop joe as the greek gave the all clear to do prop joe... prop joe being the steady and consistent buyer/badboy and marlo being a nutter.Corpsey wrote: Leaving aside the question of WHY the greeks trust marlow now (how did that happen?)
been watchin series 2 with my dad, series 3 with my younger bro and getting the neighbour on 1. so very good.
"Our guest will arrive at some point, depends what time The Bill finishes."
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ufo over easy
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I think the only problem here is that the Wire tackles issues of character like this indirectly. You could see the whole of season 4 as part of Marlo's character development, in that it followed the activities of the kids and attempted to show how people in Baltimore end up doing what they do..RickyRicardo wrote: That's actually my biggest complaint about the last two seasons, which is that Marlo, for the most part, has been a totally one-dimensional character, which is kind of out of step with how fully developed most of the other characters are. We have no real insight into who Marlo is, where he came from, what motivates him (other than power and money), and why he does what he does. Avon and Stringer had far greater layers of complexity to them. We knew what brought them to where they are now, and where they wanted to go (two very different places...as we ultimately found out). Marlo, on the other hand, is such a blackbox. Why is Chris so loyal to him? Do they go back to childhood, like Avon and Stringer?
It'd be nice to get a glimpse of Marlo's background though, I agree with you there.
the DVDs have sold pretty well though I think. it's the same with all shows like this... I mean if you walked in even at the start of series 5 you'd be fucked. you need to have been in this since the beginning really - god bless the internet for that. the people who watch it regularly really love it though... so... dvd sales! hooraycorpsey wrote:The weirdest thing of all for me is that apparently its a ratings flop
True. My girlfriend was like, "Who's that?" and i said - "do you remember season 2 -- and the docks and the Greeks? That's Sibotka....one of the guys from that neighborhood."RickyRicardo wrote:Episode 6 was like a mini version of "Where are they now?" Seeing Nick Sobotka pop up out of nowhere to rip into Carcetti was a treat. It's something that would only make sense to you after having seen Season 2 and knowing how hard his uncle fought to keep that part of the docks.
Randy is now pushing people around -- survival of the fittest....i guess. Randy is completely unintimidated. He's already "done his time." He's received the harshest sentence imaginable (at least on the streets of Baltimore) -- he's been labeled as a snitch.RickyRicardo wrote:And then poor Randy. Great line when Bunk tries to intimidate him into giving a statement, and then Randy goes "You gonna give me time?".
This season has been lovely -- you're now seeing Marlo gaining absolute power in the streets, yet he's running scared from Marlo. Even worse, Snoop and Chris are hiding out. No one -- messes with Omar.
I'm starting to believe that Lester and McNulty are biting off a little more than they can chew -- and that's saying a lot given their collective intelligence and wit.
Fact that only RickyRicardo & I would know:...we live in Baltimore, so we know this person's influence. Clay Davis' attorney is portrayed on the show as Billy Murphy. In real life the character that is playing Billy Murphy is: Billy Murphy. Mr. Murphy probably didn't have a script for the scenes with Clay Davis.
A little insight -- Billy Murphy is the guy you go to when you're in real trouble in Baltimore City...and i'm not talking a DUI. Don King gets sued all the time for all sorts of stuff -- his attorney, Billy Murphy. Excellent to see him on the show.
Another fact that only RickyRicardo & I would know:Do you remember when Billy Murphy did that show on Channel 13 called "Square Off"?
I'll buy you lunch if say so -- that's old school Baltimore TV right there. Where's Richard Sher when you need him?
Plus -- nothing beats the cable access style commercials that ran on tv.
Mr Ray's Hair Weave.
Mr Ray's Hair Weave II -- This one as a guy with a weave.
The 98 Rock Commercial
Don & Marty Chaperone Commercial
The Bob Turk weather commercial
Kim's Karate - YOU'VE GOTTA SEE THIS !
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RubiconMan
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RubiconMan
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jah wobble
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