CONDONING PIRACY?

surface_tension · Post by **surface_tension** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:57 pm

seckle wrote:we don't work with barcoded music in this scene. we don't have soundscan charts and stats. one leaked tune put on p2p from an independent record label, virtually guarantees that the label and artist will get next to nothing back from that tune. all it takes is one leak. stop the madness.

this. although, I've noticed when we have a release that leaks to torrents it is an indicator that there is a demand for the tune(after it's been a couple weeks. if it leaks before I might literally cry.) that doesn't mean I condone it by any means, I get furious when I see it there. But for a brief second I do realize that one fact. Once it goes up on some tracker, I do notice a sharp decline in sales. And if it happens before it gets sold digitally, forget about digital sales. That is why there is a negative stereotype of Digital DJ's I think, because everyone assumes they pirate everything. Probably not all of them, but I bet at least 70% have some illegally downloaded stuff. That goes for vinyl DJ's as well lol.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:18 pm

there are more than a handful of big producers in this scene that have paid for everything (or have had things given to them in sponsorship), simply because they don't want to deal with kracked crashing plugins or kracked crashing updaters, and want to just get tunes out without all that bullshit. regardless of that, people always come back and think that they're very clever with the pirated software argument, which i think is so hilarious now. its about as dumb as going up to a plumber and saying "did you pay for your tool bag, because if you didn't you're a hypocritical plumber." ?
the whole larger point that a few of us are trying to make here is the culture of acceptance needs to change. this si 2009. no more fucking bullshit 2nd grade excuses. its stealing. i've been arguing filesharing on this site for as long as I can remember, because I love watching how far people will go to justify getting over on the scene that they seem to love so much, but won't financially support.

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:22 pm

raymond ford wrote:I love hearing that defense, that's the same as "us vs. the big corporate giants." It's a hypocritical defense. Buy your software and then bitch about your tracks.

why?

raymond ford · Post by **raymond ford** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:31 pm

alien pimp wrote:
raymond ford wrote:I love hearing that defense, that's the same as "us vs. the big corporate giants." It's a hypocritical defense. Buy your software and then bitch about your tracks.
why?

why buy the software you use? Morally it's just the right thing to do.

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:00 pm

the software prices are immoral compared to the price of our work and the revenues you get from them, as proved by the time and the amount of work you need to cover such expenses as a decent quality music producer in our field

if you love it, it means the music pays off, which i can't tell about the software companies, so fuck'em!

can you differentiate between those guys and an artist here talking to you on your board, explaining you he might need to work longer instead of making free tunes for you, people you might get to look in the eyes next gig thinking "poor fuck, i just nicked your shit"?

dubstee · Post by **dubstee** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:07 pm

jason burns wrote:
dubstee wrote:There's quite a lack of understanding of the issues in this thread.

The argument that there is an upside to piracy in terms of getting music heard is a joke. Youtube don't pay royalties. They should, and they might in future, but not many people see streaming a tune on youtube as piracy (even though technically it is as long as they're not paying royalties). So there is a way of hearing music without directly stealing a product (i.e. an mp3), and therefore the argument that downloading high quality mp3s which are available for purchase is somehow helpful to the artist in question is utter rubbish.
the body of your paragraph does not support your opening and closing statements.

It does, read it again. The point is that music is available to hear on youtube (which is indirect piracy but negotions are ongoing there) so you don't have to download high quality mp3s (which is direct piracy).

dubstee · Post by **dubstee** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:09 pm

seckle wrote:one leaked tune put on p2p from an independent record label, virtually guarantees that the label and artist will get next to nothing back from that tune. all it takes is one leak. stop the madness.

That's overstating the case a bit. The research indicates that a lot of illegal downloaders do buy music as well. But it does have an effect, certainly.

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:20 pm

alien pimp wrote:the software prices are immoral compared to the price of our work and the revenues you get from them, as proved by the time and the amount of work you need to cover such expenses as a decent quality music producer in our field

if you love it, it means the music pays off, which i can't tell about the software companies, so fuck'em!

can you differentiate between those guys and an artist here talking to you on your board, explaining you he might need to work longer instead of making free tunes for you, people you might get to look in the eyes next gig thinking "poor fuck, i just nicked your shit"?

dude! grow up!

logic in the uk is 329 pounds. or 118 if you're a student. write 4 good tunes, get them signed to a reasonable sized label, you'll get a 200 quid advance per release. money made back.

just because it would take me a long time to make my money back if i bought a set of golf clubs, doesn't mean that the price of the golf clubs is immoral, and it doesn't mean that i can justify stealing them.

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:25 pm

bwahaha, when did you get your last 200 advance? what percentage of the producers here got such an advance?

how much time and experience you need to release stuff at the level where you get that advance?
how can you get the experience with free tools?

you need 2 releases like that to cover the 329, so double the above

what world do you live in?

human? · Post by **human?** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:38 pm

the problem isnt pirates. and all artists should be rewarded for their labors & genius...

the PROBLEM is with "property" & money & the system they support.

fucking ancient obsolete leftovers, they are games that are fixed.

essentially, this discussion is never going to be solved with 20th century ideas.

i buy music and love pirates.

raymond ford · Post by **raymond ford** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:38 pm

As an artist we always assign a higher value to our work than what is actually worth.

Alien Pimp -> Since you keep complaining about immoral prices and what not, why don't you invest your time into designing a DAW yourself then. Any tnuc can get on here and bitch about how things are sooo unfair, boohoohoo. Do something about it, LMK when your stable and viable DAW is finished...i might even buy it.

dubstee · Post by **dubstee** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:42 pm

setspeed wrote:
alien pimp wrote:the software prices are immoral compared to the price of our work and the revenues you get from them, as proved by the time and the amount of work you need to cover such expenses as a decent quality music producer in our field

if you love it, it means the music pays off, which i can't tell about the software companies, so fuck'em!

can you differentiate between those guys and an artist here talking to you on your board, explaining you he might need to work longer instead of making free tunes for you, people you might get to look in the eyes next gig thinking "poor fuck, i just nicked your shit"?
dude! grow up!

logic in the uk is 329 pounds. or 118 if you're a student. write 4 good tunes, get them signed to a reasonable sized label, you'll get a 200 quid advance per release. money made back.

just because it would take me a long time to make my money back if i bought a set of golf clubs, doesn't mean that the price of the golf clubs is immoral, and it doesn't mean that i can justify stealing them.

100%

setspeed · Post by **setspeed** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:00 pm

alien pimp wrote:bwahaha, when did you get your last 200 advance? what percentage of the producers here got such an advance?

how much time and experience you need to release stuff at the level where you get that advance?
how can you get the experience with free tools?

last week, for what it's worth.

anyway, why do you need free tools? why can't you just buy the fucking thing? i take it you don't have a car, since they cost more than 300 quid and won't make your money back? or a bike? or an XBox? i'm guessing you stole your decks because you realised it was gonna take more than 5 minutes to learn how to mix and get some paid gigs?

gah.

anyone would think i work for a software company

i just can't be doing with the hypocrisy.

dubstee · Post by **dubstee** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:04 pm

alien pimp wrote:bwahaha, when did you get your last 200 advance? what percentage of the producers here got such an advance?

how much time and experience you need to release stuff at the level where you get that advance?
how can you get the experience with free tools?

you need 2 releases like that to cover the 329, so double the above

what world do you live in?

How can you defend software piracy but condemn music piracy?

setspeed wrote:anyone would think i work for a software company i just can't be doing with the hypocrisy.

You are entirely correct.

raymond ford · Post by **raymond ford** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:14 pm

setspeed wrote:

anyway, why do you need free tools? why can't you just buy the fucking thing? i take it you don't have a car, since they cost more than 300 quid and won't make your money back? or a bike? or an XBox? i'm guessing you stole your decks because you realised it was gonna take more than 5 minutes to learn how to mix and get some paid gigs?

gah.

anyone would think i work for a software company i just can't be doing with the hypocrisy.

QFT

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:32 pm

setspeed wrote:
alien pimp wrote:bwahaha, when did you get your last 200 advance? what percentage of the producers here got such an advance?

how much time and experience you need to release stuff at the level where you get that advance?
how can you get the experience with free tools?
last week, for what it's worth.

anyway, why do you need free tools? why can't you just buy the fucking thing? i take it you don't have a car, since they cost more than 300 quid and won't make your money back? or a bike? or an XBox? i'm guessing you stole your decks because you realised it was gonna take more than 5 minutes to learn how to mix and get some paid gigs?

gah.

anyone would think i work for a software company i just can't be doing with the hypocrisy.

no, i don't have all that junk, and i already explained a few times i don't condemn piracy, i condemn stealing from the famo
is it that complex for you?

)

i shouldn't ask though, for you it's ok to spent 328 pounds in hope you'll make that cash god knows when, but it's not ok to give up a cheap beer to pay for an ep that makes you happy more than that a beer if you really bothered with it

mixing got me enough money to afford the decks, until i did i trained on other people's decks

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:51 pm

big ben · Post by **big ben** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:20 am

Feral Witchchild wrote:
big ben wrote:oh, and if you didn't know. Down here in Texas we will smoke you for disrespect.
...I don't understand, are you threatening me? Haha. I didn't mean to disrespect you, dude, I'm just saying piracy is a fact of life - if you make good music, people will steal it.

I mean, I could understand like being THAT pissed if someone ELSE was making money off of the tunes after stealing them, but that's different.

Maybe if your tunes weren't shit you would understand. As far as threats,nah I'm not making threats. You quoted me and tried to clown like you know who I am. So now you know were I stand. Maybe you should re-think this whole conversation. Fucking wank, I understand now after listening to your sleepy, samey bits why you aren't trying to capitalize on them!

surface_tension · Post by **surface_tension** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:52 am

alien pimp wrote:
setspeed wrote:
alien pimp wrote:bwahaha, when did you get your last 200 advance? what percentage of the producers here got such an advance?

how much time and experience you need to release stuff at the level where you get that advance?
how can you get the experience with free tools?
last week, for what it's worth.

anyway, why do you need free tools? why can't you just buy the fucking thing? i take it you don't have a car, since they cost more than 300 quid and won't make your money back? or a bike? or an XBox? i'm guessing you stole your decks because you realised it was gonna take more than 5 minutes to learn how to mix and get some paid gigs?

gah.

anyone would think i work for a software company i just can't be doing with the hypocrisy.
no, i don't have all that junk, and i already explained a few times i don't condemn piracy, i condemn stealing from the famo
is it that complex for you? )

i shouldn't ask though, for you it's ok to spent 328 pounds in hope you'll make that cash god knows when, but it's not ok to give up a cheap beer to pay for an ep that makes you happy more than that a beer if you really bothered with it

mixing got me enough money to afford the decks, until i did i trained on other people's decks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAs-i32t5c

alien pimp · Post by **alien pimp** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:06 am

Surface_Tension wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAs-i32t5c

something like that yeah!

so let's all spend years of investing and achieving a sound so hobbysts and kids with no respect can have the time of their life on that music while spending the cash to feed the alcohol industry and to get some cheap broads drunk
you fuckers are the same who don't go to events unless you sneak on some guest list!

i'm not making my efforts for you, so you know!
bless the respectful headz here!

CONDONING PIRACY?

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