Mexican Flu: Created in lab to make money and a mass genocid

[alien pimp]

so if it's no different, what makes you say it was swine flu?

Um, the Doctor said so?

last studies in uk show over 50% of the 150.000 kids who were injected tamiflu experience nightmares. dizzyness, stomach aches

i guess doctors did that too

[selrahc]

so if it's no different, what makes you say it was swine flu?

Um, the Doctor said so?

last studies in uk show over 50% of the 150.000 kids who were injected tamiflu experience nightmares. dizzyness, stomach aches

i guess doctors did that too

not to be a stickler but :

tamiflu comes as tablets (and possibly oral suspension), it isn't a vaccine or even injectible.

they didn't study 150,000 kids, they studied 248 in one study, and 103 in the other.

nightmares/psychological symptoms were experienced by 1 in 5 of the 103 kids studied, not 50%.

the neurological side effects aren't actually a new thing if you read the medical literature - the japanese use it a lot for seasonal flu and decided a while back not to give it to kids because rare side effects include nightmares and hallucinations.

[alien pimp]

so if it's no different, what makes you say it was swine flu?

Um, the Doctor said so?

last studies in uk show over 50% of the 150.000 kids who were injected tamiflu experience nightmares. dizzyness, stomach aches

i guess doctors did that too

not to be a stickler but :

tamiflu comes as tablets (and possibly oral suspension), it isn't a vaccine or even injectible.

they didn't study 150,000 kids, they studied 248 in one study, and 103 in the other.

nightmares/psychological symptoms were experienced by 1 in 5 of the 103 kids studied, not 50%.

the neurological side effects aren't actually a new thing if you read the medical literature - the japanese use it a lot for seasonal flu and decided a while back not to give it to kids because rare side effects include nightmares and hallucinations.

you're not a stickler, but:

it's irrelevant for the topic if vaccine or pills

all studies are made like that, including tests for new medicines and cures, so if that study fails because of that, so do all studies and medicines

what sources you have for that 20% figure, mine are something of this type: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-New ... 0638?f=rss

thanks god the side effects are not something new

[selrahc]

it's irrelevant for the topic if vaccine or pills

yeah i know, i just wanted avoid confusion between tamiflu and a swine flu
vaccine (which has occasionally happened in the media)

all studies are made like that, including tests for new medicines and cures, so if that study fails because of that, so do all studies and medicines

this isn't true. if you wanted to scientifically test whether tamiflu causes nightmares or any other side effect, you'd need 6 groups (as far as is ethical): swine flu kids on tamiflu, swine flu kids on placebo, swine flu kids given no treatment, and the same 3 groups but with healthy kids. all 6 groups would also have to be matched for age/sex/background health issues. what you have here is semi-anecdotal evidence of side effects in children, some of whom are seriously ill and who's symptoms could have resulted from the viral infection or immune response.

what sources you have for that 20% figure, mine are something of this type:

sky news isn't exactly the most accurate source, and that article doesn't mention 150,000 kids, or a 50% figure for nightmares. CNN mentions specific numbers in each study, but the actual papers are here:

18% of 103 children reported mild neuropsychiatric side effects

no reporting of neurological effects in the other cohort of 286, but as you say about half get headaches and upset stomachs. those symptoms are also associated with viral infection in general.

sky does include the anecdotal account from one mother (NB even if it was a doctor presenting a single anecdotal case like that i'd be dismissing it)

She went to a party a day before her course of treatment ended, and that's when things really became really scary...Nobody has actually said it was the treatment, but I’m convinced it was.

this is because as a parent its easier to believe that the nasty drug the doctor gave your precious little flower made her act all weird, rather than the fact that she went to a party and may have gotten wasted when she was still suffering from what can be a serious disease. equally, an interaction between alcohol and tamiflu, or swine flu and alcohol, can't be ruled out. a fever and a load of booze can do funny things to you.

[parson]

oh i get it. cnn is a reliable source.

[selrahc]

oh i get it. cnn is a reliable source.

not necessarily, which is why i put links to the original papers - i just gave cnn as an example of a source that actually bothered to quote them.

[fuagofire]

i suffered from nightmares when i was a kid. _ must have been that mmr vacine just after it made me autistic

[alien pimp]

jeez selrahc, wtf are you on, tamiflu? read your own sources again!

* Story Highlights
* Researchers say more than half of children who took Tamiflu suffered side-effects
* Among reactions were nausea, nightmares and insomnia in
* Japan is advising against prescribing Tamiflu to youngsters aged 10 to 19

The report said: "Fifty-one percent experienced symptoms such as feeling sick (31.2 percent), headaches (24.3 percent) and stomach ache (21.1 percent)."

One of the studies found that evidence of side-effects prompted UK ministers to change the policy so only confirmed or suspected cases were prescribed Tamiflu.

The second study, also published by Eurosurveillance, looked at 103 children.

The research found that 53 percent of children at three London schools had one or more side effects. The most common side effect was nausea, with 29 percent of the pupils complaining of this.

you really talk some amazing things about the studies too... it's not about the methodology (that's pretty different anyway in the 2 situations)!
you claimed the tested group is not really representative for the whole mass of treated patients, i'm asking how representative were the test groups for the total mass of viagra users for example, there's a zillion viagra users i suppose.

[nicenice]

An example of Alien Pimp & Parson's supreme logic.

[hackman]

grow up

[parson]

what the fuck does this have to do with me. jesus christ you're an idiot, nicenice.

[nicenice]

My bad, just Alien Pimp. Thought I read through this and you were involved, evidently not.

[gwa]

evidently i'm a sadact