WTF America... wtf...

[capo ultra]

@ Genevieve: it was an analogy, im sure you're smart enough to pick the parts of it which are relevant and the parts which weren't to the discussion, sort it out mate

I know, I'm just saying it's a bad analogy and doesn't work with what you're trying to say.

it clearly does but if you're intent on disagreeing fair play, cant please everyone.

your analogy works fine

[flyingointment]

If someone's breaking into your house to take shit (and possibly worse), why should you be compassionate with them at all? Makes no sense to me.

[clifford_-]

because its another human life you doughnut.

[flyingointment]

because its another human life you doughnut.

So the fuck what? You should be compassionate towards someone who'd likely kill you and/or whoever you live with if it meant they could get away?

Just the fact that they'd even break into a house is proof enough that they have no respect for people or their lives.

[clifford_-]

because its another human life you doughnut.

So the fuck what? You should be compassionate towards someone who'd likely kill you and/or whoever you live with if it meant they could get away?

Just the fact that they'd even break into a house is proof enough that they have no respect for people or their lives.

your ridiculous. just cos you dont give a shit about someone elses life, dont mean we all like that.

[flyingointment]

because its another human life you doughnut.

So the fuck what? You should be compassionate towards someone who'd likely kill you and/or whoever you live with if it meant they could get away?

Just the fact that they'd even break into a house is proof enough that they have no respect for people or their lives.

your ridiculous. just cos you dont give a shit about someone elses life, dont mean we all like that.

Yeah, and just because you're enough of a bitch to put your own life at risk because of some unrealistic moral ideal (that shouldn't even logically come into play considering we're talking about shooting people that actively break into other people's houses for the purposes of stealing shit and potentially hurting them or worse in order to get away) doesn't mean that I am. ^___^

[clifford_-]

id rather put NO ONES life at risk, bitch.

[flyingointment]

id rather put NO ONES life at risk, bitch.

Ah, yes, because clearly my opinion stems from a desire to arbitrarily kill people for no reason...and totally not from the fact that, you know, these are violent criminals breaking into homes.

[badger]

Makes no sense to me.

which is exactly the problem. no offense to you or any other americans but it's as if it's bread into americans that material possessions > everything else

if someone's doing something truly horrible like about to rape you or a loved one, or some other violent act then i can understand the argument for wanting a gun to protect yourself; but using a gun to protect possessions? especially if it's with intent to kill. using it to injure and aid in the capture of a criminal is more excusable but setting out to kill someone for stealing something is mental

fair enough, you may have worked many many hours and sacrificed all sorts to get your favourite _____ but is that more important than a human life? very few people are born evil and most will be stealing either out of desperation or because they've ended up on a downward spiral in their life. america has a culture of thinking that everyone should help themselves but some people are clearly not capable of doing that and end up getting involved in all sorts of shit when they're younger that they'd probably rather they hadn't, and once you've set off down that path it's very hard to get back from it. a strong individual may be able to turn things around but the most won't and then end up in a life of crime (one that the US govt could do a lot to prevent). does that make them a shit human being? possibly, depending on your viewpoint, but a human being whos life is worthless? definitely not

If someone's breaking into your house to take shit (and possibly worse), why should you be compassionate with them at all? Makes no sense to me.

basically, yes. you're not better than them otherwise

[flyingointment]

...but the thing is, badger, how do you KNOW if they just want to take things? I understand what you're saying, and don't think that murder is appropriate in all of these situations by default, but the idea that it's NEVER justified is misguided. Furthermore, I agree that if possible, it would be better to incapacitate a home invader as opposed to killing them...but if a situation is quickly turning violent, you're not exactly left with a lot of options. Especially considering how unreliable police can potentially be in these kinds of situations, particularly if you don't exactly live in a "nice" neighborhood.

The desire to not get caught would inspire most burglars into committing acts of violence if they need to in order to get away.

[noam]

...but the thing is, badger, how do you KNOW if they just want to take things? .

shoot first ask questions later then yeh??

no ones saying you dont have a right to defend your property but there are good courses of action for (hypothetical) situations and bad ones

[noam]

and murder is never justified, self defence is...

if someones actually trying to kill you you're within your right to kill them out of self defence if it comes to it

if someone tries to kill you and you easily overpower them, what is the right course of action there?? punishment... or GUNishment??!?!?!

but seriously, the times when actually killing someone in self defence is truly justified are few and far between

[badger]

...but the thing is, badger, how do you KNOW if they just want to take things? I understand what you're saying, and don't think that murder is appropriate in all of these situations by default, but the idea that it's NEVER justified is misguided. Furthermore, I agree that if possible, it would be better to incapacitate a home invader as opposed to killing them...but if a situation is quickly turning violent, you're not exactly left with a lot of options. Especially considering how unreliable police can potentially be in these kinds of situations, particularly if you don't exactly live in a "nice" neighborhood.

The desire to not get caught would inspire most burglars into committing acts of violence if they need to in order to get away.

like i said, there are instances where it's more acceptable but it should never be taken lightly. if it's genuinely a case of your life or theirs then it would take a saint to just accept death but to kill someone whether it's with a gun, knife, bat or whatever for breaking into your house to steal is not acceptable - especially if they're already trying to escape and clearly not a threat

this term "home invader" is interesting too. i've never heard it anywhere but in america and it sensationalises things more than is necessary. essentially a burglar entering your house is an invasion, but it just strikes me as another tool of fear in the american arsenal. a person's home is their castle and all that and when you start using emotive terms like "invasion" then it strikes a certain chord in someone's psyche

[.onelove.]

If you didn't have your guns, the king of England could walk right in there and start pushing you around. THAT WHAT YOU WANT?? WELL???

[noam]

If you didn't have your guns, the king of England could walk right in there and start pushing you around. THAT WHAT YOU WANT?? WELL???

hahahahahaha

[LACE]

AMERICAN REVOLVERLUTION

[Badman Juice]

You have to understand that our country is in mid-deterioration. Public education has totally failed. The job market has totally failed. What little money families have has gone to the uber-wealthy. Social services / safety net are being either stripped back or cut altogether. We are approaching lawlessness. It is pretty clear that it is every man for himself. And part of that is personal protection.

As you settle in to comfortably look down your nose, I'd like to point out that your nation is scheduled for the same type of destruction. The ground work is being carried out right now.

In lighter news, America has adapted the generally goofy phenomenon of flash mobs into a killing sport:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 6677.story

can't wait to stand by and watch your country burn.

fuck you . i hope we take your shitty country down with us, wherever you're from . you might think your humor is edgy or dark, but you're talking about a country full of people , the majority of which are not as stupid as you or the fox news retards who you associate with us.


once again, fuck you .

*slow clap*

thank you tacospheros, BadmanJuice is possibly the largest asshole i've ever witnessed on DSF, it's like he never has anything worthwhile to say. i'd call him a troll but wouldn't want to give him that much credit.

you can only deal with someone disagreeing with you if they do it on your terms.

fuck your country and fuck your hypocrisy.

[Badman Juice]

you think you can divorce yourself from your country's crimes by saying shit like 'it's the other guys, we're clever really' but no you pay taxes into the american war machine and if your government is so misrepresentative of its people then why hasn't this silent majority done anything to change american policy over the last 70 years?

you are the trolls, or you're just deluded about your part in the shit your country does.

[hubb]

pkay wrote:ladies and gentlemen, Glenn Beck



GB helped create the conditions I am merely pointing out.

nowaysj wrote:Public education has totally failed.

US is what 47 or 48th internationally in math and science education. That is a failure in a nation with our level of resources. When I lived in LA, the drop out rate was 50%. Half of Los Angeles' native population couldn't even graduate from high school. Total failure.


nowaysj wrote:The job market has totally failed.

This one is harder to demonstrate because the official numbers are cooked, but it is apparent when a quarter of the people you know with degrees and experience are unemployed, and have been so for some time.

.
nowaysj wrote:What little money families have has gone to the uber-wealthy.

From the start of the "financial crisis" to now, average American household wealth has decreased by 25%, while at the same time billionaire level household wealth has increased by 25%.
- I bet its even worse than that. And its all thanks to the bailouts and the rigid concervative tradition of trying to get rid of government, which in turn is backed up by the insane and very antisocial notion of everyman for himself, the right to bear arms and the idea that somewhere America is white.

nowaysj wrote:Social services / safety net are being either stripped back or cut altogether.

How many millions of American's without health care... and we're going to cut medicare, medicade, and social security? Raising the retirement age to 75. I've just got nothing to say on this.
Obama is a fraud and a wimp. But you are a fucking idiot - heres an equation: Medicade/medicare for taking care of gun wounds- gang related violence etc? those are your reasons for carrying a gun? It seems like you think a gun is social security, how about the idea that just as an example there wouldnt be gangs if there werent weapons - no dangerous neighbourhoods etc.

There are people like GB who helped create these conditions, then there are people like you who persistently attempt to deny or remain ignorant. Fuck the both of you.

people like great britain is that what you are saying? ridiculesly vague and unfounded bull shit!

[hubb]

billionaire level household

Its not a household if theyre billonaires, only in America would you have the complete fucking idiot idea that someone could have that much money and still be a regular citizen, houseowner, voter etc.