shameless self promotion on this forum is getting very dull

[mechabot 01]

Check out our new release on W.E Recordings, Hellfire Machina 'Guitar Dub' with mixes, available from all good digi retailers.

Also, the Sunz Of Mecha album is in full swing so expect to hear some bits very soon.

Our remix of Spacetrips 88 is out soon on Sound Of Habib too, it's seems to be going down well on the myspaz.

My beard is also getting pretty long if anyone is interested, oh and I just had 2 sugars instead of 3 in my morning cup of Tetley.

[ikeaboy]

referring back to spamming maybe i'm wrong but aggressively spamming message boards seems like one of the worse ways of attempting to be "successful" - especially in a relatively small "scene"

I don't think your wrong at all. The door to door Dubstep salesmen are misunderstanding their potential consumers. People seem to value music more if they feel they discover it themselves. Which CD will you be more loyal to?

A. The one your mate has been banging on about and gave you a copy you haven't managed to listen to yet.
or
B. The CD by the artist you never heard of until Producer X mentioned him in an interview and you tracked it down online until you found an mail order place.

Applying this kind of thinking to online promotion and you might come to the conclucion your better off leaving clues to your existance rather than huge neon signs.

[surface_tension]

It's pretty easy to sit from the outside and tell a label how to run their business and risk their money. I understand you may feel rubbed the wrong way. I assure you, for every person rubbed the wrong way, there are 20 people rubbing a Surface Tension record on their platter right now.

What is unprofessional would be to call people out for their business practices in a public forum instead of privately, unless there is some sort of financial or overwhelming public need to know about that issue... i.e. labels stealing tunes.

Yes, I'm a terrible person for wanting to get our artists names out there. I'm sorry if that offends you, my doing the job that I'm contracted to do. At the end of the day though, when it comes time to handle business I sleep well at night knowing that shit happens on a tight schedule, with a plan in mind to support our artists to the fullest. And by the way, I spam a lot of peoples releases on here, not just mine. See this is a music discussion forum, including the discussion of new releases and old releases. And I don't see too many complaints when someone bumps up some thread from 2005 releases or some shit... just when people talk about something new or fresh. So fucking what I bump a thread... that's not spam, it's a single thread. And when someone says something and you reply to it, that's not a bump then is it?

It's a discussion board. Have a cookie and a glass of milk. Discuss. Don't be such a hater. I bet you look at guys flipping dime bags on the street and run informer to the man. Hating because they are trying to do what they have to do in their own mind, their own situation.

And just in case anyone here missed the comment about "people like to discover things on their own, not have it thrust at them"

Uh, then why the fuck are they asking for suggestions in the first place? Because they already found something on their own that they like and want to hear what other opinions are, etc... that goes back to this whole idea of discussion. For instance when something becomes available, or unavailable at a shop... it might pertain to a certain release and I might post about it. Crazy.

[ikeaboy]

I don't think this thread is all about you, I certainly was talking in more general terms. You were mentioned fair enough, but if it was you alone doing this type of marketing on this forum alone then I don't think it would be raising the ire that it is. There's a lot of aggresive promotion on the internet and although its down to individual efforts it has a combined effect and its reacted to as a whole and that reaction is usually "leave me alone". I was drawn into the discussion because its of relevance to me and its something I actively study so don't feel attacked by me anyway although I do have opinions which you might not aggree with.
As an honest assesment, I'd still preview/buy releases on your label. You come across as overzealous but I doubt your out to ruin dubstep . You normally keep a calm enough head unless you think someone is commiting crimes against music. How about talking about the thinking behind the way you market the label? Do you reckon for every groaner you get a couple of potential purchasers? Is the nature of high profile posting on forums going to draw criticism because you can't please everybody?

[feral witchchild]

I've bumped my own threads sometimes (not more than like once or twice, though, any more than that is just overkill). I didn't realize people took offense to shit like that. I mean, for one thing, I don't sell my music (I'll give it away if people ask) and the main reason I'm on here is to get feedback from people who know more about production than I do. It's not about some desperate need for attention. If I just wanted to hear "sounds good, man" I'd show it to my irl friends. lol

I mean, of course it's nice when people say that your tunes are siq, but I would much rather prefer if someone gave me criticisms that I could actually use to make my shit better. That's why I make those threads.

However, blatant self promotion IS fucked up, that I can't deny.

[beatlejuice]

Seems like too many people want to start on the inside. Suck up to the clique du jour, maybe ride a lil dick and hope some shine rubs off. The trouble with that is, you've only got one place to go from there...spun outwards in an arc of widening irrelevency. I've always been a fan of positioning yourself on the extreme outer then spiralling in towards the centre while creating as much chaos on the way. Black holes and event horizons intrigue me.

I also love burning bridges. Looking back and seeing flames reaching to hell, knowing you never had any intention of backtracking and you're never gonna return that way.

Animated avatars are surely equally as offensive as half page sigs . Self promo is a bit awkward but promoing others isn't, especially if thats what your job is. Somebodys got to do it.

[surface_tension]

I don't think this thread is all about you, I certainly was talking in more general terms. You were mentioned fair enough, but if it was you alone doing this type of marketing on this forum alone then I don't think it would be raising the ire that it is. There's a lot of aggresive promotion on the internet and although its down to individual efforts it has a combined effect and its reacted to as a whole and that reaction is usually "leave me alone". I was drawn into the discussion because its of relevance to me and its something I actively study so don't feel attacked by me anyway although I do have opinions which you might not aggree with.
As an honest assesment, I'd still preview/buy releases on your label. You come across as overzealous but I doubt your out to ruin dubstep . You normally keep a calm enough head unless you think someone is commiting crimes against music. How about talking about the thinking behind the way you market the label? Do you reckon for every groaner you get a couple of potential purchasers? Is the nature of high profile posting on forums going to draw criticism because you can't please everybody?

Well to honestly answer your question, I'm sure enough of our sales came from word of mouth. That said, those mouths probably didn't just happen upon the tunes themselves. Either someone else told them, or we told them. Overall, I will pretty much buy tunes regardless of whether or not someone told me about it or I found it on my own. To me that seems like a very petty and selfish way of sharing music(in a broader sense, not file sharing). If I like something I tell people about it. Sometimes if I don't like something I tell people about it. To me that is just the nature of discussions and forums. We don't always agree. I happen to think life is better when we don't all agree, if you know what I mean.

I gotta say though, more than a few people miss threads when they are on the front page or even half way down the page. That comes from people making 30 threads about 1 subject and bumping all 30 of those threads about the same subject. If it was just the same 10 subjects pretty much being bumped all the time and it was 10 manageable threads instead of 300 about 10 issues, it would be better IMO. For 1 release I have a thread. Neither of them is on the front page right now to the best of my knowledge and look at the amount of posts in said thread a month ago and now... maybe 10-15 posts in there in the last month, as opposed to 150 in the 2 before that. Just saying, they are making an issue out of it after the game is already over. When it's a non issue. It's all good though, haters will hate. It's what they do and I won't find fault with anyone who is just doing their job.

[abZ]

I can't read all of this shit. Nor do I want to. Bottom line is I have always thought of this section as the spam section and I don't spend much time here because of it. But while I am here these tunes must be listened to. http://www.virb.com/savoryaudio

[eshscramble]

can anyone recommend me some gangster ass shit?

i figure more people are reading this shit than my legitimate question.


lafffffffffffffffs


to all who are offended pls understand it is friday and i'm almost outta work. i tend to get a bit antsy at these times.

[surface_tension]

can anyone recommend me some gangster ass shit?

i figure more people are reading this shit than my legitimate question.


lafffffffffffffffs


to all who are offended pls understand it is friday and i'm almost outta work. i tend to get a bit antsy at these times.

Trill are pretty gangster.

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=86161

[selrahc]

can anyone recommend me some gangster ass shit?

i figure more people are reading this shit than my legitimate question.


lafffffffffffffffs


to all who are offended pls understand it is friday and i'm almost outta work. i tend to get a bit antsy at these times.

Trill are the whitest thing in dubstep

don't mind me, i'm just bored with work. and the excessive self promotion in this part of the board definitely gets on my nerves, people have fucking links to their myspaces and dancing animated banners in their half page sigs, do you really have to post incessantly about yourself?! (this isn't directed at anybody in particular)

[de-fi]

post of new dubs should stay in the dubs section. that's what it was made for. pretty simple i think.
~m

I would've thought that would probably the best idea.

Have a subforum for:
A dubs section for dubs
Then a section for released tracks, either on net or physical label.

Maybe make it so you have to have a certain number of posts before you can create a thread in one of those forums or something. Might stop some mindless spamming.


I don't think you can really draw a distinction between what people should and shouldn't promote. I know that if i'd made a track I thought was worth hearing, i'd be doing all I could to get it heard.

[hackman]

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=86352

[ikeaboy]

I don't think you can really draw a distinction between what people should and shouldn't promote. I know that if i'd made a track I thought was worth hearing, i'd be doing all I could to get it heard.

I don't think people are trying to say you can promote one thing and not another. However when does promotion become counter productive by alienating people rather than gaining their attention? Then you got to think is everyone being alienated or just a vocal minority and how much credence do the usually silent masses pay to the high posters opinions? Another thing- is it a good idea to combine your online promoting forum identity with your general identity if you don't give a shit about pissing people off by slagging much loved labels etc? Running a label in a microscene is as much a labour of love as making music for a microscene, ain't nobody doing this to feather their nest, but its nice to pay your producers something so anything that could effect sales is important unless you just release your own music or you can afford a cavalier attitude to money.

[de-fi]

I don't think you can really draw a distinction between what people should and shouldn't promote. I know that if i'd made a track I thought was worth hearing, i'd be doing all I could to get it heard.

I don't think people are trying to say you can promote one thing and not another. However when does promotion become counter productive by alienating people rather than gaining their attention? Then you got to think is everyone being alienated or just a vocal minority and how much credence do the usually silent masses pay to the high posters opinions? Another thing- is it a good idea to combine your online promoting forum identity with your general identity if you don't give a shit about pissing people off by slagging much loved labels etc? Running a label in a microscene is as much a labour of love as making music for a microscene, ain't nobody doing this to feather their nest, but its nice to pay your producers something so anything that could effect sales is important unless you just release your own music or you can afford a cavalier attitude to money.

Yeah, I definitely think you can over-do it, and I think there are a couple of people on this forum, who do not help themselves in the slightest by their over-promotion, and their attitude (which although they claim to be professional, strikes me as slightly immature).

Maybe by segregating the forums a bit more, you could cut down on the drivvel. If people want to find new music, they can go to the music section. If they want to discuss a certain aspect of the scene, they can come in here. People can have links to their music / threads within their sigs, so every post is an advert anyway.

One of the main reasons that some people don't get noticed is due to oversaturation. If I'm just generallly scrolling a page, every user and their mum has a link to music in their sig, as well as often posting it in the message. I really don't have time to look at all those.

I actively seek out topics in the dubs section though when a quick description is given in the thread title.

[ikeaboy]

Thing about segregating the forum areas is look what happened with the Dubs section lots of people never go near it. If somebody gets cheeky and sticks a dub in the main section and it gets half a dozen favourable responses then the odd time I might check it out even though I'm to lazy to trawl through the dubs section (sorry- I've had my babies languish in obscurity there too). What would happen with a promotional area? - it would be a graveyard IMO.

[cogent]

new tune on the myspace...

www.myspace.com/cogentbeatz

Karki Kid

[djshiva]

continually bumping threads that no-one seems to really care about and getting the same old faces to engage in mindless self gratifying discussions just to keep the thread in people's faces

worst of all jumping on every fucking thread when a newcomer who has only just heard of dubstep wants some pointers and showing them the tune you are currently spamming when they might never have even heard of mala or whoever else

i'm getting sick of it, if the tune's good people will discuss it - shameless self promotion shouldn't be allowed and is against the rules

isn't it?

EDIT: O yeah of course if done tastefully self promotion is a vital part of this forum, i am talking about when people TAKE THE PISS

I totally agree

This is probably the best example where the label owners (one in particular) bumped it 10 times just on the last page.

http://www.dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.p ... &start=160

Well, I was gonna stay out of the convo, but since several people pulled my label into it...

Seriously. Would you rather we make ten fucking threads to promote the same release? It's our thread for our release. We are trying to keep the clutter down, keep each release to one thread, and perhaps give it a bump when we think it's needed (mostly when it gets a few pages down, not every hour on the hour). I don't like needless spamming any more than the next person, and I personally don't consider how we have promoted our label "spamming". Frankly, I am less annoyed by people bumping their threads than I am every damn label/artist using my Myspace comment section as their personal billboard. THAT is spamming, IMNSHO.

Instead, you are gonna try and call us out over the fact that we are actively promoting our releases? Um, isn't that our JOB as a label? To make sure that the releases get attention so our artists get heard (and quite frankly, PAID)? Maybe I missed something in the Grand Book of How to Promote Your Record Label that YOU wrote? Because I was pretty sure that is what we are supposed to be doing.

I am sure our artists would be THRILLED if we just put out the records and didn't make every effort to promote them. I mean, having a record that maybe sells 50 copies surely is reward of its own, right?

Pfft. I am sure that some people are content to wallow in their own obscurity, and by all means, be my guest. But I consider it my job to make sure that our artists DON'T.

And I know some SuperMegaHipsterUnderground Rulebook says that I shouldn't be worried about money and artists getting paid, but people gotta eat, and we gotta pay for the pressing. I do this because I love music, but it's not a fucking charity, yanno? Nobody is giving anyone funds to run labels, so you gotta at least sell a few records.

And if bumping a thread sells some records, gets our artists the recognition they deserve for their talent and hard work, and makes sure we are not selling our furniture to pay for the records out of pocket?

Consider the thread bumped.

Now, back to things that really matter, like healthcare for the poor and people going hungry and wars and stuff. 'Cause if some thread bumping is the worst thing that happens to you today, consider yourself extremely fucking lucky.

P.S. Thanks for posting our thread. I quoted it. See what I did there?

P.P.S. I think it needs to be said as well, that a community supports each other, and we support other labels/artists as well. If we see a quality release posted, we post in that thread, subsequently bumping it. See how that works? That's how this whole fucking board WORKS, people.

You can sit and act like we're self-interested assholes, yet since I came upon this scene, I have done my best to promote EVERYONE that I think is making quality music. I want to see talented people do well. So how 'bout steppin' the fuck OFF me for doing what I think is best to support the artists I care about on my own fucking label? Me and my label partner sometimes have different methods for doing things, but in the end, we just want our artists to do well. I'm usually the humble, diplomatic one, but right now, I am just pissed off, to be honest.

[djshiva]

And PS, when there is new Digital Mystikz out there that isn't fucking Spongebob or Night or some cheese bullshit, I'll recommend it.

You might not like my threads about our music, but our music is good. The suggestions I make are good and if someone asked me where to find some 4/4 kicks, a cheese wobble and a gimmicky bassline, well... I'll send them in that direction. When someone says "Hey, I like this and I'm looking for artists who incorporate jazz into their dubstep."

Fuck if I'm not going to link them to the guy who DOES JAZZ. Or they ask for something vocal, and we have a release just out that has a female vocal... fuck if I'm not posting it. You've obviously never hustled shit in your life. Not weed, not music, not anything. Have you never sold shit over the phone or door to door?

I don't know about you, but I prefer the weedman that delivers at 2am. I also prefer when someone under contract to sell something upholds it. Just saying.

And there goes any credibility.

Please elaborate. Why the fuck would we take the risk if we didn't think it was good?

Did I just step into Stupidland today, or what?

generally speaking if your tunes are absolutely killer then DJs won't just want them, they will fiend for them - doesnt matter who wrote them. just a bit of subtle promotion with good manners and a humble attitude will work wonders for getting support

Next, when you say "your tunes" to Surface Tension, keep in mind that Surface Tension is NOT Phaeleh. Phaeleh isn't asking specifically for that kind of promo push, this is the work of the label promoting the tunes. So if you're going to judge the tunes themselves on the label's promo push, that's unfair. It's doubly unfair 'cause I will vouch for Phaeleh, that's a wicked producer(and I know that from tunes outside Surface Tension's label). Honestly, whether ya like this or not, the deluge-style promo Surface Tension has used on this board is just as successful a promo tactic, if not more, than the route you suggested...

Also, I would like to add that our artists seem to be pretty pleased with our drive to promote them. If they're happy, I'm happy.

listen i can see totally where you're coming from and largely agree, i just think being too forceful can end up backfiring and turning people against your music

So what I am hearing is that the music isn't what you gauge your opinions on, but whether people bump threads too much. Really? Wow. Good for you. You keep that up. I am sure it works well for you.

[surface_tension]

So lets sum this all up...

1. We should all take a lesson from marketing tactics of Mala, meaning never post or talk about your tunes, let them speak for themselves.

2. Never post about any new producers when asked about what is hot in Dubstep, instead suggest Mala regardless of what they are asking about.

3. Nobody makes good tunes but Mala.

4. If you are a new producer, don't post your tunes. People will find them from the links and threads you never posted about them, or listening to them on the radio shows of DJs whom have never heard of you because you never posted.

5. Repress DMZ 001,002,003

generally speaking if your tunes are absolutely killer then DJs won't just want them, they will fiend for them - doesnt matter who wrote them. just a bit of subtle promotion with good manners and a humble attitude will work wonders for getting support

Reptilian, generally speaking, are you a DJ... generally?