Anyone think that arabic/islamic countries would be

[kani]

does eliminating Western influence mean no more Caterpillar Bulldozers, F-16's,and the laundry lists included here?

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arm ... 50602.html
http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arm ... FINAL2.pdf

perhaps the fact that the US keeps Israel flush with conventional weaponry, keeps them or is contingent on the suppressing of their nuclear arms program.

[magma]

Westerners should, wherever possible, encourage peaceful solutions in the region. Humans killing humans is never good, no matter why they've been driven to it - the important thing is to stop them being driven to it, certainly not hanging out on the Internet encouraging more people to take innocent lives!

Neo-conservatism doesn't work. Neither the USA nor any other Western nation is responsible for forcing 'peace and democracy' onto the rest of the world by disregarding the sovereinty of another nation.

The Western world is a corporatist neo-liberal cesspool. We are not the moral compass of the civilized world and we should not meddle with issues that do not concern us because history has proven, time and time again, that when Western governments meddle with the Middle East, Western and Middle Eastern civilians have to pay the price. Cue back to September 11 in the year 2001 (the Taliban mentioned Western interference in the Middle East as the primary cause of 911, fast forward a few weeks when the USA started its nation building campaign in Aghanistan, which failed).

The only reason why the Palestinians are weak is because Westerners are there -- who are feared (and rightfully so) by most of the Middle East. End all Western interference and you'll have Israel's nuclear weapons versus a fuckload of Middle Eastern countries willing to help the Palestinians. In other words? A war no one can win and thus, a war no one will start. Western interference has only prolonged the conflict and caused numerous civilians, in London, Spain and the USA and all over the Middle East to die.

I agree with a lot of that, to be honest. I don't think direct Western influence helps at all... my point was more that I think standing on the sidelines shouting support for either side is counterproductive. Sending armies and "peacekeeping forces" is also pretty coutnerproductive - send an army anywhere and the domestic population will feel invaded and there will be resistance, it's the same all over the world and all the way through history.

Afghanistan is not a place you fuck with. You can't win and you won't make anything better for anyone. Westerners have been taught that lesson countless times over the last couple of hundred years (my Grandad even told my Dad when he was young!)... yet they keep going back!