WTF America... wtf...

[hubb]

svpreme wrote:...but the thing is, badger, how do you KNOW if they just want to take things? I understand what you're saying, and don't think that murder is appropriate in all of these situations by default, but the idea that it's NEVER justified is misguided. Furthermore, I agree that if possible, it would be better to incapacitate a home invader as opposed to killing them...but if a situation is quickly turning violent, you're not exactly left with a lot of options. Especially considering how unreliable police can potentially be in these kinds of situations, particularly if you don't exactly live in a "nice" neighborhood.

The desire to not get caught would inspire most burglars into committing acts of violence if they need to in order to get away.


like i said, there are instances where it's more acceptable but it should never be taken lightly. if it's genuinely a case of your life or theirs then it would take a saint to just accept death but to kill someone whether it's with a gun, knife, bat or whatever for breaking into your house to steal is not acceptable - especially if they're already trying to escape and clearly not a threat

this term "home invader" is interesting too. i've never heard it anywhere but in america and it sensationalises things more than is necessary. essentially a burglar entering your house is an invasion, but it just strikes me as another tool of fear in the american arsenal. a person's home is their castle and all that and when you start using emotive terms like "invasion" then it strikes a certain chord in someone's psyche

well put, but really its only about there actually being guns available once again, because people that had so few resources that they would actually result to breaking in somewhere (in almost any other part of the world) wouldnt have the means to get a gun. So the danger comes from having them in the first place and the raised danger level is therefore something you introduced that we the rest of the world is too smart to ever even think of.

[pkay]

i was going to keep out of this thread but this pissed me off no end

well let's be real... i dont have a gun, i have a bat. and if someone broke in my house and i caught them I'm taking it to the dome with as much force as I can muster and I'm not stopping till said individual is ceasing to move.

I'm just as likely to maim, mutilate, or kill under that scenario as I am with a gun.

you're either the type thats gonna defend yours or go for safety. That's not gonna change

don't need a gun to justifiably kill a burglar.... if I had kids? i'd pitty the burglar

and that there highlights just how fucked up american culture is. there's such fetishism and obsession with objects and material goods that you're willing to kill someone to protect them. how about just chase them off ffs. if you value objects over any human life, now matter how much of a scumbag they may be, then you really need to a very long hard look at yourself

i wish i could say that you're just an ignorant dick but large swathes of american society have just the same opinion. as people have said before in this the problem with american and guns isn't anything to do with the guns themselves. guns are a symptom of the disease that is excessive levels of violence and an acceptance that it's fine to kill someone for something as petty as stealing a TV. true, in england's past people were hanged for something as mundane as stealing a loaf of bread but there were far different reasons behind it. with a lack of any kind of police force it was thought that the best way to stop crime was to deal with them so harshly that people wouldn't consider it an option. i'm sure someone will come in and say that people resort to violence because the police can't/won't help but it was as fucked up then as it is now to kill someone over something as insignificant, in the grander scheme of things, as theft

edit: before anyone jumps on that i'm by no means suggesting that all americans are the same. it's a cultural thing rather than down to inviduals and the only way for it to change is for individuals to do something about it and make it clear that that's no way to live life in a supposedly free and wonderful society

not about killing to protect my shit... got insurance for that... and getting robbed you can generally make money off insurance so really could give a fuck about posessions..... about not getting killed myself or having my girlfriend get raped/murdered/etc.

Maybe in the UK you can't understand the plight of american poverty and drug culture.... folks breaking into houses in the US aren't just rascals from the east end looking to make a dime and cause a little trouble. You're talking about people who are stealing to feed insane drug habits and are just as likely to take your life.

If someone breaks into my house I'm sorry I'm not going to wait to find their intentions. If that makes me a beast then fuck it beastmode for Pkay. But like I said with my girl in the bed I'm not waiting to find out shit about a burglars intentions.

I also come back to if you have kids in the house? What the fuck kind of man are you if you aren't going to protect your fucking family? You gonna wait till he makes a pass at your 2 year old daughter before you intervene with more than a harsh scolding and traumatizes your kid for life? Get the fuck out of here with that bitch ass shit.

[pkay]

you think you can divorce yourself from your country's crimes

Despite our countries 'crimes' we don't hold a candle to most every European countries 'crimes' if we're gonna get real.

[cityzen]

*Nevermind*

[pkay]

you think you can divorce yourself from your country's crimes

Despite our countries 'crimes' we don't hold a candle to most every European countries 'crimes' if we're gonna get real.

And yet your country is the most hated on earth. How is that fair?

I dunno, why is Manchester the most loved and hated football team on the planet?

[capo ultra]

massively hypocritical for anyone from UK to tell US guys what is right or wrong in this situation, in a land where guns are everywhere and someone breaks into my home, I would hope I have the guts to fuck them up with a baseball bat or something at least

I'm not about to stop them and ask if they only want possessions or my life, i don't see how this is so hard to comprehend??

because its another human life you doughnut.

So the fuck what? You should be compassionate towards someone who'd likely kill you and/or whoever you live with if it meant they could get away?

Just the fact that they'd even break into a house is proof enough that they have no respect for people or their lives.

your ridiculous. just cos you dont give a shit about someone elses life, dont mean we all like that.

sorry but you sound like a tit, I'd like to see someone try and fuck up your life in an unimaginable way and you turn the cheek and say 'I respect your life so I won't retaliate'

[noam]

i said it a loada times in this thread, there's nothing wrong with defending your home or yourself

but a white wash approach thats basically saying if you're in my house you're getting shot and im gona shoot to kill, is fully retarded, and symptomatic of living in a shit place where the only place you aint scared is in your house

people's fear leads to bad places - innocent people getting killed is the main one

wonder what the shoot to not-shoot ratio is if the 'perpertrator' is black as opposed to white too...

its funny how you resort to a dumb stereotype of 'east-end gangsters' to justify yourself living up to the 'gun-toting texan' stereotype

normally i think you talk a lot of sense, in this case i think your attitude is pretty shitty

[pkay]

i said it a loada times in this thread, there's nothing wrong with defending your home or yourself

but a white wash approach thats basically saying if you're in my house you're getting shot and im gona shoot to kill, is fully retarded, and symptomatic of living in a shit place where the only place you aint scared is in your house

people's fear leads to bad places - innocent people getting killed is the main one

wonder what the shoot to not-shoot ratio is if the 'perpertrator' is black as opposed to white too...

its funny how you resort to a dumb stereotype of 'east-end gangsters' to justify yourself living up to the 'gun-toting texan' stereotype

normally i think you talk a lot of sense, in this case i think your attitude is pretty shitty

can you read homie?

I don't own a gun and said I have a bat.... but the end result of a break in would be me defending my family.

I don't fear living in the US in the slightest, but I'm realistic to the country I live in and would be stupid not to equip myself with some manner of defense.

In the US the male still defends the women and children in the household.

Also, criminals in the US know the game... they know when they're breaking in they're risking their life. While it might seem shocking to you in your country, they know the score

[pkay]

Sorry, that shit isn't happening.

[noam]

yeah fair play i forgot you said you had a bat not a gun

i have a bat in my room and when i was at uni i kept a golf club and two hammers under my bed but thats another story!

and yeh im prepared to use em, we've been broken into enough times

but yeh, the paranoia thing is just something we really dont have over here

not until you get old anyway, my dad shits himself when he hears a noise outside and he used to be fearless

[Genevieve]

Yeah the paranoia in the US seems to be the biggest problem, judging from here. But I don't think it's the only part of it. From what I've gathered, the actual violence and the fear of it go hand in hand, as sort of a vicious cycle and it's impossible to tell what came first. This is why I don't really blame American culture for being what it is.

[pkay]

It's not really paranoia.... paranoia involves irrational or dellusions.

We live in a country of 300 million people in a MASSIVE country. In the other thread about wildfires we showed a map of how big texas is... that's barely 10% of the US in size. It's impossible to adequately police a nation our size (physically). It's just being smart. Set guns aside, anyone with a family it would be reasonable for you to have a weapon of some sort to defend your family.

I'm not scared, or in fear, or paranoid in the slightest... I'm just aware that dope is a big deal in our country and crime comes with it.

[noam]

out of curiosity how many times has your house been broken into??

[pkay]

out of curiosity how many times has your house been broken into??

twice

Once as a kid and my dad pulled a gun on him and dude ran off.

Second time was 2 years ago at my place I own now that I had an alarm installed on. Alarm went off, they smashed the keypad and couldnt get it to stop.... Got the G/F locked in the bathroom with a cell phone but by the time i started making my way to the stairs

[pkay]

on that note, I also recommend exhausting efforts like security systems, extra deadbolts, secure windows, etc. I'm not advocating murder in the sake of defending your home. I've got a decent security system, even more so the reason that if I come face to face with someone effectively infiltrating my home, all bets are off

[noam]

twice over 30 years (give or take) really isn't that bad

in my lifetime between 3houses i've been in the house 3 times during break-ins, one resulted in me being stomped thhe fuck out in my bathroom, and the house has been empty during a break in once, my garage and shed have been broken into about 5-6 separate times

i understand where you're coming from but do you see why maybe we'd say you're a little paranoid?? two attempted burglaries is nothin man

that said, i dont know your circumstances, you might live or have lived in an affluent area where burglaries aren't common place or you might have exceedingly good security or you might have just been lucky

either way, all this talk of doped up, rampaging, murdering, raping burglars is a bit OTT dont you think, especially as its not exactly been an every day occurrence in your life? maybe some other shit's happened that makes you think like that?? maybe the news over there tends to exaggerate and also pay an abundant amount of attention on these sorts of issues?? maybe its a combination of the both...

[Badman Juice]

you think you can divorce yourself from your country's crimes

Despite our countries 'crimes' we don't hold a candle to most every European countries 'crimes' if we're gonna get real.

at least their countries didn't proclaim themselves as ultra moral beacons of freedom and democracy.

american arrogance across the political spectrum is sickening.

[HamCrescendo]

but yeh, the paranoia thing is just something we really dont have over here

you kidding me, the house I'm moving into next year is a burglars dream. im already thinking about elaborate dressed up manikins in the living room and booby traps.

if my records get knocked i will cry.

[noam]

where you movin/what street??

[HamCrescendo]

behind the armitage centre, fortuna grove if you know.