shameless self promotion on this forum is getting very dull

[alien pimp]

you don't bump any other quality releases than those guys', who already have tons of media coverage
+
reality is there's more excellent releases around besides what they put out, while sometimes they put out totally mediocre shit (it's almost normal when they get their asses kissed each and every)
+
hype sells 5 times more than quality
+
the majority of kids are just like you.
=
somebody has to compensate somehow for you. your own attitude generates what you don't like.

and as i said, i didn't do it as much just because some favorable "lucky" situation like the fact that when i started dubkraft (about 3 years ago) anything good would almost automatically get praise and the good image accumulated over time stayed with dubkraft.
but things are changing and i'm ready to change as well if needed. we'll see starting tonight or tomorrow, when a new release should be up

as willie nelson said once: "don't bogart love"

i didnt miss your point and actually i'm not naive or "like all the other kids" (despite your patronising comment)

i do get to hear plenty of upcoming stuff and always have a listen when someone posts up something - it only riles me if i see it 500x a day in my face

the fact is that i haven't felt moved to start a thread or comment on these "unknown" artists because i didn't like their music.

my personal view is that people like mala, skream and many of the other big names is that they are big not because of hype or being in the right place at the right time or being blessed with the right friends and associates but because of their immense talent

i also think that others with talent can find a way through without acting like arrogant dicks or pushy salesmen

as i tried to say before plenty of producers have come through without being "insiders" because their talent speaks for itself

the fact that you're trying to pick fault with me is pissing me off as i think the threads that i bump or contribute to are irrelevant

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ARTISTS STARTING THREADS OR PROMOTING THEMSELVES ON FORUMS ITS JUST BAD WHEN IT IS RUDE PUSHY OR OTT

just because you and a few others are bitter that some people are big and others aren't is not my problem ok?

you've been very patronising and rude to me with your dismissive and intrusive comments - i don't have a duty to promote artists i don't like you know

also, if everyone spammed as much as some of the worst offenders WE WOULDN'T HAVE A FORUM TO DISCUSS ON IT WOULD JUST BE LIKE A SPAM FOLDER!

while i think you've been very patronizing and rude to the people who you've been teaching how to do their work while it's obvious you don't know what are you talking about and you're far from being able to draw the line between good and bad promo.
you're actually doing the same as the people you're criticizing, just in the opposite/de-constructive way

if you feel those are the only artists deserving your push - feel free!
but what you and some people are doing here is some kind of a reverse-bump

and if it-s just 1-2 names disturbing you, why don't you post your opinion when they do that in their topics instead of launching general statements that you can't back up with some sense?

as i said: the promo is always shaped by the audience, or you do not resist in biz.

less "bump-downs" means less need for "bump-ups"

[__________]

I am sick of being slagged over some wacked out perception people have about my or my label partner's motivations.

people's perception of your label on this forum is down to what your label partner has written on here.
our perception of your label might be wacked out, but that's not our fault, its matey's fault for typing wacked out shit!

i've got no beef with you, but Surface_Tension chats the amount of shit on here, and i laugh every time he calls someone bruv

its meant to be all about the music, and you preach it like that, but Surface_Tension feels the need to bring politics into any sensible discussion given half the chance.

people aren't ganging up on you. if Mala typed politically-motivated rants on public forums all the time, i'm sure people would think he's a bellend too.

my 2p.

[rogue star]

you don't bump any other quality releases than those guys', who already have tons of media coverage
+
reality is there's more excellent releases around besides what they put out, while sometimes they put out totally mediocre shit (it's almost normal when they get their asses kissed each and every)
+
hype sells 5 times more than quality
+
the majority of kids are just like you.
=
somebody has to compensate somehow for you. your own attitude generates what you don't like.

and as i said, i didn't do it as much just because some favorable "lucky" situation like the fact that when i started dubkraft (about 3 years ago) anything good would almost automatically get praise and the good image accumulated over time stayed with dubkraft.
but things are changing and i'm ready to change as well if needed. we'll see starting tonight or tomorrow, when a new release should be up

as willie nelson said once: "don't bogart love"

my personal view is that people like mala, skream and many of the other big names is that they are big not because of hype or being in the right place at the right time or being blessed with the right friends and associates but because of their immense talent

bro, i hear what your saying, but if you think that is the only reason people get big, your very much mistaken and im sorry to say it, a bit naive - music as an industry works in a certain way. All these elements equate to some sort of success, no one gets rewards for talent alone otherwise some of the most well reputed and critically acclaimed artists (through sheer hard graft and talent as opposed to hype from magasines and sheep) would have gotten further and gained more notoriety then some of the more mainstream artists. (this is a view as music as a whole rather than focusing on dubstep alone btw before someone starts bitching)

[reptilian]

you don't bump any other quality releases than those guys', who already have tons of media coverage
+
reality is there's more excellent releases around besides what they put out, while sometimes they put out totally mediocre shit (it's almost normal when they get their asses kissed each and every)
+
hype sells 5 times more than quality
+
the majority of kids are just like you.
=
somebody has to compensate somehow for you. your own attitude generates what you don't like.

and as i said, i didn't do it as much just because some favorable "lucky" situation like the fact that when i started dubkraft (about 3 years ago) anything good would almost automatically get praise and the good image accumulated over time stayed with dubkraft.
but things are changing and i'm ready to change as well if needed. we'll see starting tonight or tomorrow, when a new release should be up

as willie nelson said once: "don't bogart love"

i didnt miss your point and actually i'm not naive or "like all the other kids" (despite your patronising comment)

i do get to hear plenty of upcoming stuff and always have a listen when someone posts up something - it only riles me if i see it 500x a day in my face

the fact is that i haven't felt moved to start a thread or comment on these "unknown" artists because i didn't like their music.

my personal view is that people like mala, skream and many of the other big names is that they are big not because of hype or being in the right place at the right time or being blessed with the right friends and associates but because of their immense talent

i also think that others with talent can find a way through without acting like arrogant dicks or pushy salesmen

as i tried to say before plenty of producers have come through without being "insiders" because their talent speaks for itself

the fact that you're trying to pick fault with me is pissing me off as i think the threads that i bump or contribute to are irrelevant

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ARTISTS STARTING THREADS OR PROMOTING THEMSELVES ON FORUMS ITS JUST BAD WHEN IT IS RUDE PUSHY OR OTT

just because you and a few others are bitter that some people are big and others aren't is not my problem ok?

you've been very patronising and rude to me with your dismissive and intrusive comments - i don't have a duty to promote artists i don't like you know

also, if everyone spammed as much as some of the worst offenders WE WOULDN'T HAVE A FORUM TO DISCUSS ON IT WOULD JUST BE LIKE A SPAM FOLDER!

while i think you've been very patronizing and rude to the people who you've been teaching how to do their work while it's obvious you don't know what are you talking about and you're far from being able to draw the line between good and bad promo.
you're actually doing the same as the people you're criticizing, just in the opposite/de-constructive way

if you feel those are the only artists deserving your push - feel free!
but what you and some people are doing here is some kind of a reverse-bump

and if it-s just 1-2 names disturbing you, why don't you post your opinion when they do that in their topics instead of launching general statements that you can't back up with some sense?

as i said: the promo is always shaped by the audience, or you do not resist in biz.

less "bump-downs" means less need for "bump-ups"

guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

good luck with your music anyway

[alien pimp]

safe enough!
just express your disagreement nicer and in a more useful way for everyone!

[Hibbie]

everyone needs to step away from the keyboard on this one. too much crazy energy in this thread.

i'm not a hippy, but the one thing i've learned about musical movements down the years like the grateful dead and woodstock, is that if you look at a group of people like consumers, then at least make sure you treat them as friends first.

once you forget that key point; then you might as well be selling people burgers and kebabs, instead of subbass.

And I think the reason I am pissed about this is because I have ALWAYS approached people as friends first. And I am sick of being slagged over some wacked out perception people have about my or my label partner's motivations.

I know this thread wasn't originally necessarily aimed just at us, but that's where it has headed, because people chose to specifically highlight us.

Pardon me for being a little chapped about it.

Ok don't take this too personnel but I have no respect for your label and i have been put off from purchasing anything to do with surface tension, I know that is highly arrogant but that is how i feel, this is all down to your "promoting" methods. It all seems way too desperate like you've tried every promoting method and this is your last resort. You can easily sit there and say that I don't know anything about running a label and your right I don't but i do know what i respect and why i respect it. If your vinyl release appeared on the chemical records just arrived section without all your desperate promotion then It would probably be sitting in my vinyl bag right now ready to be heard by people. Yes I have listened to it and it is good quality but because there's so many other good releases out there it is hard to choose from, but you just made it that bit easier to remove from the basket.

There are a lot of people on here that promote themselves or their label and i'm fine with it, I listen to them and comment if it's good, so please don't think that i've got something against self promotion because I haven't. But you must ask yourself why you have all these as you say "haters".

[unlikely]

yea, no slate to you Shiva as i have always respected your music, online persona and politics, but you can't really blame people for associating the personality of your partner with your label when he posts under the name of the label, with the logo as avatar.

[surface_tension]

If I make a single post, let people respond, respond to the response... post when there is a repress, post when it appears in a new shop, or when it sells out... THAT'S NOT FUCKING SPAMMING.

Seriously 1 thread about 1 release that hasn't been legitimately bumped for the sake of bumping in over a month and we're slating it.

Hibbie, more power to you. I hope you at least copped that Berkane Sol release with Geiom and Appleblim and the new Trill Bass and Formant releases as well. If you're not going to give me your money, at least give it to our friends.

For the record, when 10 people tell me they won't be buying something based on such an arbitrary reason, I generally feel as though I've lost 1 sale, gained 9 new avenues of promotion from 9 posts complaining about me and linking my threads. I weep for the 1 lost sale and click my heels knowing you sell me 5 more with every complaint.

and p.s. Hibbie... it appeared in the just arrived cart 2 weeks after we initially posted about it... 2 weeks of promoting, not months... and it had been bumped maybe 2 times in 2 weeks.

[physical]

holy shiiite that is a mean array of funktion 1 weaponery. where/what is that? looks sweet.

[Hibbie]

If I make a single post, let people respond, respond to the response... post when there is a repress, post when it appears in a new shop, or when it sells out... THAT'S NOT FUCKING SPAMMING.

Seriously 1 thread about 1 release that hasn't been legitimately bumped for the sake of bumping in over a month and we're slating it.

Hibbie, more power to you. I hope you at least copped that Berkane Sol release with Geiom and Appleblim and the new Trill Bass and Formant releases as well. If you're not going to give me your money, at least give it to our friends.

For the record, when 10 people tell me they won't be buying something based on such an arbitrary reason, I generally feel as though I've lost 1 sale, gained 9 new avenues of promotion from 9 posts complaining about me and linking my threads. I weep for the 1 lost sale and click my heels knowing you sell me 5 more with every complaint.

and p.s. Hibbie... it appeared in the just arrived cart 2 weeks after we initially posted about it... 2 weeks of promoting, not months... and it had been bumped maybe 2 times in 2 weeks.

You've been promoting your label way before the vinyl release, come on you should know that. i'm not just talking about that thread youve bumped a hundred times. Could you not just take this as constructive critism?? You should think about the image your creating for your label. It's not all about sales.

[shamwow]

[alien pimp]

you mean full of plastic bottles because you never get promos ?

[hackman]

you mean full of plastic bottles because you never get promos ?

[dubsteptim]

theres a lot of banter in this thread just likes theres shit ton of banter on the forum... as w/ any forum when it gets popular, you gotta wade thru the shit to get to the good stuff u are interested in / wanna read about.

[selector.dub.u]

I suppose it is difficult to sell 500 records without much promotion unless they are brilliant.

Sometimes brilliant artists and records get overlooked because of a lack of promotion. Even brilliant artists records don't sell if no one hears them. A little bit of promotion might actually result in people listening to a piece of music and determining that it is brilliant.

gwarn sir

I feel that we @ Urban Graffiti have pretty good quality control, and a descent artist roster with some extremely talented individuals, but its obvious that this alone isn't helping our sales, dont get me wrong we can at least pay our artists (even if we are out of pocket) but without a good few people to help do our promo for us and so forth how do we push the sounds further? we try not to unnecessarily bump our threads, but because of this, an informative thread where people can leave their comments and check out some forthcoming releases ends up on the 3rd page the next day. As it is there's a lot of traffic on this here forum, but its not just thread bumping - theres a shed load of pointless threads that get started too lets not forget that.

I still would like to know who says where to draw the line, and who gets to say what is good and bad music, how you supposedly do successful marketing and promo without winding someone up? i guess you dont.

People will not like everyone's methods of promo same way they wont all like breakstep or wobble, same way that people might like the PS3 over the 360 then video a mate trashin a 360 cos they hate it so much - its personal preference, like it always has been in music and bottom line is you cant please everyone. I think its a shame that some really talented individuals get over looked cos we are trying to keep some of you happy by not bumping threads or over killing promo - so hows about this then? if you dont like people doing serious self promo'ing for their label why not try checking out what they are trying to push? maybe leave a comment? help the community your part of and in the process expand your knowledge of artists and music in this scene to enrich your own lives - there's the solution there

Yes. I agree. Ultimately it is sort of a crap shoot when one decides to start a label, promote or make underground/ electronic/ whatever type of music one is selling/ making. No one knows if their music is going to sell or be liked when they make it or put it on the market. It is always a risk no matter how big of an artist or label it is. It ultimately doesn't matter how great i may think a record is or how great i think someones music is. Or how much something is pushed or promoted. That artist or record may never sell or get press and be well loved by a lot of people or even those closest to me. A lot of what happens in this area is beyond our control. That is just the risk one takes when one creates music and puts it out there for the public or starts a venture in an underground music/ movement.

Eventually even the "big" artists and labels in an underground dance community/ scene/ movement have to start doing promo of some sort to sell records. Even if you are a Mala or a Skream there is no guarantee your music is going to sell or even still be liked. There are no guarantees that people are going to like what you or anyone creates or plays and that it will sell. But that is just life.

Underground dance music audiences are notoriously fickle and what is considered hot/brilliant one year or day is considered not the next. This whole process is so arbitrary that it is difficult to make a judgment on whether or not something will be considered brilliant by your target market or not even if I think it is brilliant or you think it is brilliant. It is a really subjective thing and tastes change quickly.

The way I look at it for myself is that I stay true to myself as best I can.
This has resulted in a few years of not performing or having my music released. I don't feel bitter about it though. I choose to have integrity rather than go for sales or alter my vision to get gigs. This approach I think has helped me stay involved in and creative in underground dance music movements for almost 20 years. I also don't begrudge artists who make music that may not be true to themselves to appeal to a certain audience or to sell to the mainstream ( although making music to sell or to appeal to the mainstream may be true to themselves as well - who am i to judge?)
We all do what it takes to do what we love to do.

I think also if one is in the business of selling dubstep or whatever kind of music- creative and novel approaches to marketing could and can be considered or utilized.
In this area lots of experimenting is necessary to find the right mix of promotion and what works to reach the audience your label wants to reach.
It takes a bit more work to be creative in marketing but we are players in a creative field and ipso facto - our marketing techniques in the field need to be creative and well thought out as well. After all the marketing and promotional aspect of this business represents the music we love or believe in.

As for who draws the line? That is a personal decision. I just go with my gut and get feedback from people close to me when it comes to promoting my own work. I don't promote myself or the artists I like enough I think in most cases, but the line is a really subjective thing. It is up to the one doing the promoting to decide.

This process also changes when the audience and people involved in the market gets bigger. I mean, lets face it, promoting dubstep / bass focused music especially on this forum in 2009 is a whole different beast than what it was like in 2005 and 2006 when there were only a few hundred or thousand people on here or who even knew about dubstep in the whole world.

Sorry for the long winded post I have been thinking about this stuff a lot lately...

[georgedallas]

Ok don't take this too personnel but I have no respect for your label and i have been put off from purchasing anything to do with surface tension

lewl

[skrewface]

PENIS part deux

[seckle]

holy shiiite that is a mean array of funktion 1 weaponery. where/what is that? looks sweet.

its some speaker porn to try and calm people down a bit.

from a techno camping festival in gunma, japan called Labyrinth. it happens once a year in the fall and its the biggest outdoor funktion one rig in japan.
the dj space is inside the teepee.
http://www.funktion-one.com/Labyrinth%20Festival.htm

[surface_tension]

Could you not just take this as constructive critism?? You should think about the image your creating for your label. It's not all about sales.

"Don't take this personally, but..."

and then you unleash the constructive criticism yea?

Don't take this personally but I have no respect for... etc...

yea, constructive.

At this point there's nothing left to say. You agree it's good music and under another circumstance you'd buy it. Either you'll buy it or you won't. Odds are if you'd never have heard of it, you'd not be buying it then either. Oh well. You do you, I do me.

[shamwow]

Could you not just take this as constructive critism?? You should think about the image your creating for your label. It's not all about sales.

"Don't take this personally, but..."

and then you unleash the constructive criticism yea?

Don't take this personally but I have no respect for... etc...

yea, constructive.

At this point there's nothing left to say. You agree it's good music and under another circumstance you'd buy it. Either you'll buy it or you won't. Odds are if you'd never have heard of it, you'd not be buying it then either. Oh well. You do you, I do me.

I simply don't like your label or what ever you are because you are using the Scriptina font.