Creating music with a computer is not real music

bandshell · Post by **bandshell** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:38 pm

It doesn't matter, it can be kind of irritating but that's it. If you get that worked up about it maybe you also doubt your artistic merit and need to prove it to yourself as well as the other person.

DZA · Post by **DZA** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:39 pm

Abs wrote:truth is though that you can't play an instrument, you can arrange things and edit them in a computer program, you didnt make that sine wave.. the programers who made fruityloops did all that, you just drew out a note and probably put an lfo on it.

i on the other hand have been playing the drums and guitar for years, so when people ask i say i play those.. and make tunes on a laptop

What a load of shit

vivace · Post by **vivace** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:46 pm

A synthesizer is as much an instrument as a violin, in my most humble opinion. Thing is, the definition of what is music is shifting, and thus what MAKING music is. I have a friend who goes on about "there's more honour in learning an instrument, as opposed to producing". To which I can only reply that if you're into music for the honours, you'd best quit now.

bass hertz · Post by **bass hertz** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:47 pm

Vivace wrote:A synthesizer is as much an instrument as a violin, in my most humble opinion. Thing is, the definition of what is music is shifting, and thus what MAKING music is. I have a friend who goes on about "there's more honour in learning an instrument, as opposed to producing". To which I can only reply that if you're into music for the honours, you'd best quit now.

well said.

snypadub · Post by **snypadub** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:17 pm

Abs wrote:truth is though that you can't play an instrument, you can arrange things and edit them in a computer program, you didnt make that sine wave.. the programers who made fruityloops did all that, you just drew out a note and probably put an lfo on it.

i on the other hand can suck a penis better than anybody else and often go out into town in my gimp suit

jolly wailer · Post by **jolly wailer** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:40 pm

one of my best mates from uni was a piano performance major who was absolutely sick with it in classical styles - virtuoso grade, straight performance

after getting his compositon masters from UCLA now he does music for Nick Jr. on computers and has completely disowned the way he used to judge the merits of music

it used to be like, the music was only good because it was difficult to actually perform, or because only a few very talented people could pull it off

now he sees that viewpoint as really shallow, and is way more into having fun with music, in fact doing more things with it than he ever was doing as a single player

small minded people really, computers aren't even anything new

its a way to extend our imaginations and incorporate the cultural acheivements of the past not forget them, as well as making new acheivements... creating whole new realities with sound etc

stephisaint · Post by **stephisaint** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:50 pm

Uncle Bill wrote:
Abs wrote:truth is though that you can't play an instrument, you can arrange things and edit them in a computer program, you didnt make that sine wave.. the programers who made fruityloops did all that, you just drew out a note and probably put an lfo on it.
That's not fair really. If you're making all your patches from scratch (which you ought to be) you've got to understand synthesis and there's a lot of skill in that. Drum programming also takes a lot of skill if you're going to do it with any complexity and subtletly. So does editing and arranging samples. Capo Ultra is right - you're playing a whole load of different instruments.

Granted, it's a different set of skills from playing a traditional instrument but I find it a lot easier to tear off a bit of guitar for my band than I do to compose and arrange a whole tune from scratch using Logic.

If you do it unimaginatively and use presets to create sounds you're no less of a musician than someone who plays clichéd licks on a guitar that he's ripped off other people's songs.

That's all pretty true, though comparing a bit of riff on guitar to a whole tune on logic is a bit biased. I'd say that it'd probably be easier for a musician to learn to produce rather than visa versa. I've spent years learning cello to 7/8 standard as well as time learning to produce and find production easier as there's already the knowledge of musical theory there. Essentially it's just a case of knowing where everything is, though obviously that takes time to learn properly. I'd like to see a producer pick up a cello though and automatically have an idea of what he was doing.
Should probably add though that'd they'd be equally difficult starting from scratch. Cubase is a blag for anyone, no matter how much experiance you have.

Coppola · Post by **Coppola** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:55 pm

It's just narrow mindedness. I have friends who think that the only people who produce dubstep are nerds in their bedroom. They think that a chart song e.g Muse etc is harder to write than a dubstep tune, which is wrong imo.

bass hertz · Post by **bass hertz** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:02 pm

BEN? wrote:....I have friends who think that the only people who produce dubstep are nerds in their bedroom...

they're not?

slothrop · Post by **slothrop** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:54 pm

IMO 'how hard is it to do' is the wrong way to judge music anyway. You expect someone to say "oh, my tunes sound a bit rubbish, but that's because I've spent 15 years learning to play the guitar with my elbows, ergo I'm better than all the people who use their fingers."

Doing something the hard way purely because it's harder is not the one imo...

vivace · Post by **vivace** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:21 pm

BEN? wrote:It's just narrow mindedness. I have friends who think that the only people who produce dubstep are nerds in their bedroom. They think that a chart song e.g Muse etc is harder to write than a dubstep tune, which is wrong imo.

They're not?

south3rn · Post by **south3rn** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:26 pm

Abs wrote:truth is though that you can't play an instrument, you can arrange things and edit them in a computer program, you didnt make that sine wave.. the programers who made fruityloops did all that, you just drew out a note and probably put an lfo on it.

i on the other hand have been playing the drums and guitar for years, so when people ask i say i play those.. and make tunes on a laptop

but for guitarists, they didn't make the strings themselves, or the neck, or the body. and if they decide they want a new sound, they buy different strings or an FX pedal. no different that relying on someone else to make a sine wav, or buying a new vst or synth because you want new sounds.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:28 pm

real music is fake....maaaaan

i mean think about it ...maaaaaaan

defekt · Post by **defekt** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:32 pm

Slothrop wrote:IMO 'how hard is it to do' is the wrong way to judge music anyway. You expect someone to say "oh, my tunes sound a bit rubbish, but that's because I've spent 15 years learning to play the guitar with my elbows, ergo I'm better than all the people who use their fingers."

Doing something the hard way purely because it's harder is not the one imo...

yeah, I never understood guitarists doing solo work(wank) like Joe Satriani and Steve Vai

admitted they are very good guitarists but they make shit music

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:36 pm

Defekt wrote:
Slothrop wrote:IMO 'how hard is it to do' is the wrong way to judge music anyway. You expect someone to say "oh, my tunes sound a bit rubbish, but that's because I've spent 15 years learning to play the guitar with my elbows, ergo I'm better than all the people who use their fingers."

Doing something the hard way purely because it's harder is not the one imo...
yeah, I never understood guitarists doing solo work(wank) like Joe Satriani and Steve Vai

admitted they are very good guitarists but they make shit music

but theres a middle road...

who wants to see a douche run on with power chords for an hour?

delta labs · Post by **delta labs** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:36 pm

I have a mate who uses this one sometimes. Its the future get used to to it !

the acid never lies · Post by **the acid never lies** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:38 pm

South3rn wrote:for guitarists, they didn't make the strings themselves, or the neck, or the body. and if they decide they want a new sound, they buy different strings or an FX pedal. no different that relying on someone else to make a sine wav, or buying a new vst or synth because you want new sounds.

exactly

NilsFG · Post by **NilsFG** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:01 pm

The Acid Never Lies wrote:
South3rn wrote:for guitarists, they didn't make the strings themselves, or the neck, or the body. and if they decide they want a new sound, they buy different strings or an FX pedal. no different that relying on someone else to make a sine wav, or buying a new vst or synth because you want new sounds.
exactly

+1

Also I only thought the "computer no instrument" argument was only used by 12 year olds and frustrated metalfags?

fuagofire · Post by **fuagofire** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:25 pm

DanRev wrote:I play bass guitar, I'm pretty sure its an instrument, I'm pretty good at it.

I've tried two or three times to produce, even on something simple like fruity loops. Still can't.

can you do flea style slaps?

Creating music with a computer is not real music

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