Dubstep, cd-j's, and quality control?

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:36 pm

sounds like anus and the artist dont get a cut... imho

What if its a legal purchase from bleep, boomkat etc?

If a DJ is shit because of their poor choice of tunes on a CD set up... then thats their own fault for having poor taste. Don't blame the tools.

Its sad that some people feel that we need the natural quality control of whats been cut to vinyl to stop DJs being rubbish. Place more faith in the DJ - if he picks utter rubbish - make sure he doesn't get booked again.

dub boy · Post by **dub boy** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Vinyl sounds better, period.

If you've got two copies of the same tune, one on CD one on a vinyl record, the record will win everytime!

Yep it's good to hear fresh stuff played out on CD's, but dubs are special cos as ThinKing says, the DJ will only cut the best tunes due to the expence.... so once again vinyl wins cos it enforces a subconscious quality control

I've heard soooo much second rate half-steppy dirge played this year off CD.... cos it's cheap & easy to play. I prefer when a DJ will have a few dubs, but at least they'll be high quality tunes cos of the quality control ThinKing touches upon enforced by cost

tru_g · Post by **tru_g** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:00 pm

I see alot of people going on about 320's but what are peoples views on VBR? I would much rather play a tune with an average of 220kbps VBR then a CBR 320

tmu · Post by **tmu** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:51 pm

ThinKing wrote:one thing to remember about cutting dubs is that the quality control - If a DJ only plays off dub it means they've got to commit at least £20-30 to gettin it cut, which itself is an indicator of how good they think the tune is.

When you've got a CDJ and CDRs cost a few pence, it's easy to drop a tune just cos it's new/unreleased even if it ain't that hot (go on, admit it, you've done it too).

There's a lot of free 320 mp3s handed out on this forum, and with people attaching importance to having exclusive/unreleased tunes, I can see the motivation for DLing and playing such tunes even if the quality isn't always that good. Certainly I listen to a lot of the free tunes given away on here and I personally have only heard a few which I think are good enough to play out.

I dunno if you see what I'm getting at but in one way, the cutting of dubplates acts as quality control for unreleased tunage.

Also, I personally cannot abide by calling unreleased tunes 'dubs'. It ain't a dub until it's a dubplate.

my words exactly!

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:59 pm

it's not about mp3 vs vinyl

its about having a mastering engineer listening to the track before its played out.

cure · Post by **cure** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:36 pm

I dont think new technology has anything to do with 'watering down" the music of ANY genre. Its in the hands of the DJ. A good programmer is a good programmer. Hands down.

narcossist · Post by **narcossist** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:59 pm

Formats are irrelevant, its whats stored on the format the counts.

It would be nice if all cdr's had been mastered but at 20/30 quid a track its not cheap. Its possible to do a "home mastering job" obv its not gonna sound like proffesional effort but it can solve discrepencies.

If people choose to play stuff cos its exclusive its upto their discernment as a selektor to ensure its good, IMO thats more important than mixing or whats hype at the moment.

Completely agree on the mp3's are not dubs tip, i've yet to see an mp3.

jeddere · Post by **jeddere** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:44 pm

Can anyone clarify this for me:

Are Bleep mp3's/FLAC's mastered the same as the vinyl release
Or are they pre-mastering?

Thanks

forensix (mcr) · Post by **forensix (mcr)** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:52 pm

jeddere wrote:Can anyone clarify this for me:

Are Bleep mp3's/FLAC's mastered the same as the vinyl release
Or are they pre-mastering?

Thanks

probably mastered as they would be for a cd, dont imagine any self respecting label would put out un mastered tunes

vinyl and cds have there own quirks and so the mastering process for them is different

I think people need to take these things a little less seriously tho

cure · Post by **cure** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:37 pm

jeddere wrote:Can anyone clarify this for me:

Are Bleep mp3's/FLAC's mastered the same as the vinyl release
Or are they pre-mastering?

Thanks

As far as Label and full releases go, It would only make sense that there is one master Wave used to be cut to vinyl and converted to MP3.

djgyn · Post by **djgyn** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:39 pm

OH NOES! THE VINYL VERSUS CEEDEE DEBATE!

I first started DJing industrial / ebm, a genre group that as of the mid to late nineties released nearly all of its music exclusively on CD. Therefore, I never became a vinyl junkie like those who started out in techno or jungle or house. I personally welcome the use of CDs and electronic files for DJing, and I really wish more electronic producers would do more in those formats. I like that places like bleep.com have gotten behind dubstep and made it available electronically. I've got no ill will towards vinyl, but I simply can't relate to those who can't see beyond it.

jeddere · Post by **jeddere** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:16 pm

forensix (mcr) wrote:
jeddere wrote:Can anyone clarify this for me:

Are Bleep mp3's/FLAC's mastered the same as the vinyl release
Or are they pre-mastering?

Thanks
probably mastered as they would be for a cd, dont imagine any self respecting label would put out un mastered tunes

vinyl and cds have there own quirks and so the mastering process for them is different

I think people need to take these things a little less seriously tho

Yea sorry poor wording by me, didn't mean completely unmastered.
Just I'm spending lots of cash there and wondered what I was getting (apart from wicked tunes; don't want to lose the picture)

measure d · Post by **measure d** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:32 pm

ramadanman wrote:it's not about mp3 vs vinyl

its about having a mastering engineer listening to the track before its played out.

yes, mastering your own tunes is not the way to go. A fresh perspective and a good flat room makes the world of difference.

djshiva · Post by **djshiva** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:39 am

ThinKing wrote:one thing to remember about cutting dubs is that the quality control - If a DJ only plays off dub it means they've got to commit at least £20-30 to gettin it cut, which itself is an indicator of how good they think the tune is.

When you've got a CDJ and CDRs cost a few pence, it's easy to drop a tune just cos it's new/unreleased even if it ain't that hot (go on, admit it, you've done it too).

conversely, if you are a producer who wants to test a tune's sound next to vinyl BEFORE you invest the money, i say go for it. in my main genre (techno) i spin cuts all the time on cd so i can compare and contrast. that said, we don't cut dubs really... i just wanna hear it, go back and work on what needs working on, play it again, and when i am pleased...i then send it off to the label to send to the mastering house.

plastician · Post by **plastician** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:08 am

Can't beat the sound quality of a dub (although I think 50% of the time this is down to the mastering it gets before being played onto the dub).

However - Playing a mastered Wav file in Serato vs a Dubplate I can't tell the difference.

Try it for yourself!!

The latest CD I got from Mala sounds SO weighty on my home system thru Serato.

Also - having played @ Plastic People using Dubs, Vinyl, Serato and CD's I can safely say I'd avoid dropping dubstep off CDR. Serato still does it justice but the CD's sound tinny

unit · Post by **unit** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:27 am

Plasticman wrote:.

However - Playing a mastered Wav file in Serato vs a Dubplate I can't tell the difference.
Also - having played @ Plastic People using Dubs, Vinyl, Serato and CD's I can safely say I'd avoid dropping dubstep off CDR. Serato still does it justice but the CD's sound tinny

ive been using serato for about a year now... and i agree 150% with this statement...

thinking · Post by **thinking** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:47 am

sapphic_beats wrote:
ThinKing wrote:one thing to remember about cutting dubs is that the quality control - If a DJ only plays off dub it means they've got to commit at least £20-30 to gettin it cut, which itself is an indicator of how good they think the tune is.

When you've got a CDJ and CDRs cost a few pence, it's easy to drop a tune just cos it's new/unreleased even if it ain't that hot (go on, admit it, you've done it too).
conversely, if you are a producer who wants to test a tune's sound next to vinyl BEFORE you invest the money, i say go for it. in my main genre (techno) i spin cuts all the time on cd so i can compare and contrast. that said, we don't cut dubs really... i just wanna hear it, go back and work on what needs working on, play it again, and when i am pleased...i then send it off to the label to send to the mastering house.

likewise, I know people who will cut a plate just to get the mixdown right - e.g. Pinch has cut his tune Pages at least 3 or 4 times trying to get the bass just right.

Like I said, dubplate 'culture' in one way is about having a certain level of commitment to the music you want to play out.

ramadanman · Post by **ramadanman** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:53 pm

oh yeh also people who cut dubs regularly get discounts and so its easier for them to be cutting tunes

owengriffiths · Post by **owengriffiths** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:53 pm

I saw Boxcutter and a few other Dj's play in Belfast on Fri the 22nd. Everyone was using laptops, not a 1210 or even a cd deck to be seen. Earlier on there was a reggae type DJ who was playing a mixture of credible stuff, the odd cheesy Sean Paul type of thing, but more importantly, Mala's 'Anti War Dub. It just didn't sound as good as it should have, perhaps he downloaded it at a low bit rate, cause all his other tunes sounded really good on the soundsystem.

As for Boxcutter/Barry Lynn, he's known for being a laptop DJ, and when he played Skream's 'Smiley Faces' and Loefah's 'System' I got the feeling that they would have only have sounded a fraction better if they were vinyl. The end of his set was suRprising. He was joined by a saxophone player and a singer, and he played a bass guitar, and the basslines sounded just as good as the kind you'd get from a machine. They were doing this set over a drum loop he was playing off the PC.

When it comes to mixing with CDj's I get the feeling that the reason why people think the sound quality is bad is because the DJ is using weak MP3's. To avoid this trouble they should just buy the tunes on Vinyl and then record them to CD. Expensive, but until dance music starts to release singles on CD it's an idea.

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unlikely · Post by **unlikely** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:36 pm

@owengriffiths, I think most of the people playin dubstep out on cds will be playing unreleased material, so recording from vinyl is not an option. As all clubs will have decks and hardly any have cdjs I cant see why doing this would pose any advantage other than less weight to carry about.

I've never had a problem with the sound on good quality cd decks personally, sometimes the highs need a little taming but thats about it so far. I've heard Serato sound pretty bad on occasion tho, although this may be to do with low bitrate/unmastered files being played (the same applies to cds obviously). My main issue with Serato is that it uses a laptop and an external soundcard, both of which can individually eff up and the communication between them can also go wrong (firewire and usb are still far from stable), as can the reading of the timecode off the vinyl if the needles/mixer are dodgy. To me that just seems to be too many potential avenues off wrongness.

Dubstep, cd-j's, and quality control?

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