Criticism

[jaydot]

I am not bothered about people criticising it. I acknowledge myself it needed work (I talk in the past tense about it now since it's scrapped) tit's all part of the learning curve but to say it was really poor without saying why annoyed me. No matter how bad the end product sounded it still had time and effort applied to it sp for someone to just say that offended me.
I'm over it now. And I;m not having a hissy fit. But I just wanted to hear if you guys had experienced similar things, so I knew I wasn't alone.

My first track was terrible, even the tracks I have up need a bit of work; but I wouldn't have made the progess I have (small steps compared to some people on here obviously.

But I'd never "picked up" music production software before a few months ago so still learning how to do certain things on the software that will help me make the tracks better. It's alright having the raw talent and ideas but if you can't get to grips with the logistics of it then you won't get far.

What I'm saying is I actually WAN'T criticism.........just not for someone to say "that's really poor". I never procllaim my songs to be brilliant. And I make things and end up deleting them all the time because I AM my own worst critic.

@nowaysj:

If I was immature I would just be unable to realise that people are saying it for my own good.

@continuumdnb

I know that I should say my stuff was shit a bit more. But if you spend say 4-5 hours on a track, and listen to it constantly, without listening to some genuinely good stuff, then you start to delude yourself it's good. It's, again, part of the learning curve.

Do you mean to tell me you knew if your tracks were good or bad in the first few months of your "career".... ?

Of course, you're new to the thing, you're going to think you've created something good when it's actually bad.

I've had people say that my creative writing is bad on one forum, but yet people on a creative writing board unanimously praise it. It's harder to guage with music imo. anyway, how good your tracks are.

[continuumdnb]

Just stop making excuses EVERY time some makes the slightest suggestion about how you could improve, you're doing it again now with the replies listen on this thread. People aren't attacking you, they're trying to help.

If i posted a track on here and someone said "dude, turn your drums down, you can't hear shit", I wouldn't say "hey but i've only been producing since christmas, i don't really know about mixing, and anyway some people like drums" (even though all three are currently true), I'd say "thanks dude" and turn the levels down.

Sometimes being told something you did sucks is a good thing, if you don't take a really defensive attitude to it.

DUCY?

[jaydot]

We're going round in circles here.

[madmeesh]

jaydot -
I think you bring up a good point, and criticism that isn't backed up can be kind of insulting, and disheartening.

You need to work on both arrangement of elements, and the mixdown of these elements.
The arrangement calls upon your own inherent knowledge of music and rhythm. That's why I think it's more important that you focus on that, the pure musicality, than worry about the EQ / compression problems at this point. The main problem with your tune (IMO) is the lack of any interesting groove or momentum created by the elements. Tight grooves are achieved by precise positioning of kick, snare, high hats, bass and melodic content. So while it's important that each element sound good, it's more important that each element relates to the others in a meaningful way such that the overall momentum / groove is furthered. Knowledge of proper beat structure and grooves is essential. EQ and compression is not.

If you want to get (positive) recognition, you need to hone your skills until your tunes sound as good as 90% of the records / tracks you listen to. Even if you like this song in isolation, in the context of the thousands of really well-produced dubstep tunes out there this just doesn't hold water.

[Depone]

may i suggest, dont sent your tunes out to any labels until your 100% sure the track is great and the production is banging. Else what did you expect? I didnt send one track to anyone other than close mates for like the first 3 years until i was happy to 'let them loose'.

I just think you jumped the gun a bit and you have been put down as a result.
Just my opinion. And lets be fair, trying to say this without sounding harsh but nobody else has touched on it... your tracks do need a lot more work production wise. But dont let it dishearten you. Do you think people like rusko were born great producers?

[jaydot]

It wasn't a label or anything. I know, and have several times on here, that none of my tracks are near that level.

I'm just pissing around at the minute as I have also said. If I read the bible from start to finish, downloaded some decent software and bought myself a decent set of headphones I'd stand half a chance.

I'm not even being anchored to making just dubstep. I've been messing around with other genres, to the same unspectacular results, but even so.

[stappard]

I'm just pissing around at the minute as I have also said. If I read the bible from start to finish, downloaded some decent software and bought myself a decent set of headphones I'd stand half a chance.

............

Just stop making excuses EVERY time some makes the slightest suggestion about how you could improve, you're doing it again now with the replies listen on this thread. People aren't attacking you, they're trying to help.

(why don't you read the bible from start to finish? get some decent software? some headphones?)

[b166er]

I'm only overcritical when its blatantly clear the producer wants overnight fame. Like when I see kids come in and "hey check out my tracks" and they've got some BS label banner in their sig 'bout their hit track comin' out in 2010. Big pimp Willy shit. You give 'em advice on their simpleton 2 instrument track, like "you need more space in your tracks, less reverb, maybe compress the drums some", and they're like "wot?" And the next question out of their mouths is "what VSTs do Dubstep best?", and that fucked txt slng flyin' from their yaps. Ok, I'm rantin' here.
Jaydot, criticism without substance is useless. So when someone says, it's poor, fuck em. They don't know why its poor, and you don't need advice from idiots anyways.
KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid with everything. Advice becomes complicated if you spend time trying to decipher it. If the criticism aint straight and to the point, let it go. That said, before you drop tracks here, get as many mates you can to listen to 'em. Unless you're like me and work completely off the grid (nobody that knows me knows that I do music. Nobody.) Because posting in here is full of experts and wanna-be experts (I fall into both categories) that will give you shit. Just for the sake of giving shit. And musicians are probably some of the most insecure group out there (you elitists know who you are!), and cant wait to bully to make them feel better about their shit music, or shit lives, or shit penis. Its just life.
Keep it up but really, dont give a fuck all what people say in here unless its clear that someone wants to lift you up positively. And never listen to me. I'm full of it.



PS Didnt you do that Delerium-Silence redo? I liked that. Minimalism.

[futures_untold]

one time, about 12 years ago I sent some tunes to a label

the guy came back and told me "this is shit, you cant dance to this, there is no bass... DON'T EVER WASTE MY TIME AGAIN!"

I was pretty pissed off for about 10 years... my pride was hurt, my ego had been scarred...

but the guy was right... I went back to the drawing board and I made tunes that were fucking off da fucking hook! (dancable)... etc

looking back, that guy did me a massive favor

I'd much rather someone tell me straight up as opposed to beating around the bush

Fixed.

Also, beating around the bush is one of my pet peeves... When people say wishy washy shit when actually then mean, 'its crap, slap yourself and go sort it out...'

And being namby pamby with girls about every last thing... When really, they should either just be cool or jog on.

[abZ]

LOL so much truth in this thread I don't know who to begin to agree with. I am really tired of getting sent shit demos tho. Do people actually listen to the stuff they make? I want to be like the guy that told FSTZ off but I really am not into this to piss people off nor am I into it to teach people a lesson nor do I want a bunch of drama. And I think most people are the same and what it results in is it is damn near impossible to get legit crit anymore. It is a shame but it is what it is. You want to know if your shit is aight? Give it out to all kinds of djs and see if anyone plays it. Don't just settle for them telling you they played it, see if your shit gets on track lists etc. And like Depone says, this is probably the best way to get somewhere in this business, do your stuff in damn near secrecy and when your shit is off the meat hook, then you come out of no where and take the scene by storm. If people hear your stuff and think it's shit a lot of times they remember that and even if you do get better they still think your shit because you didn't have the sense to not let that tune off your hard drive. And to what someone else said about these n00bs 6 months deep into their craft thinking they are the next Rusko, FUCK OFF! That may be an exaggeration but maybe not, I have good reasons for not following the dubs section on here very closely anymore. But seriously people care more about releases than making shit hot tunes. Fame and glory over being respected for doing something that you love very well. /rant

[drokkr]

LOL so much truth in this thread I don't know who to begin to agree with. I am really tired of getting sent shit demos tho. Do people actually listen to the stuff they make? I want to be like the guy that told FSTZ off but I really am not into this to piss people off nor am I into it to teach people a lesson nor do I want a bunch of drama. And I think most people are the same and what it results in is it is damn near impossible to get legit crit anymore. It is a shame but it is what it is. You want to know if your shit is aight? Give it out to all kinds of djs and see if anyone plays it. Don't just settle for them telling you they played it, see if your shit gets on track lists etc. And like Depone says, this is probably the best way to get somewhere in this business, do your stuff in damn near secrecy and when your shit is off the meat hook, then you come out of no where and take the scene by storm. If people hear your stuff and think it's shit a lot of times they remember that and even if you do get better they still think your shit because you didn't have the sense to not let that tune off your hard drive. And to what someone else said about these n00bs 6 months deep into their craft thinking they are the next Rusko, FUCK OFF! That may be an exaggeration but maybe not, I have good reasons for not following the dubs section on here very closely anymore. But seriously people care more about releases than making shit hot tunes. Fame and glory over being respected for doing something that you love very well. /rant

[unitshift3r]

There's a whole lot of truth in this thread. Sometimes it can be hard to even get people to give your track a listen and then for somebody to just say "its shit" when you've been working on it for god knows how many hours it can really dent your pride. I've never had a problem with people criticizing things I’ve done, I’d rather people where honest and said that they're not feeling it. But its cool to have something to work on, if someone tells you your beats need work at least you know and you can go away and try to improve.

I suppose it really depends on why you started producing. I just genuinely enjoy doing it, if people give it a listen and like it well that’s just a bonus (There’s no point writing something and just leaving it to rot on your hard drive, you've got to put yourself out there).

[jaydot]

There's a whole lot of truth in this thread. Sometimes it can be hard to even get people to give your track a listen and then for somebody to just say "its shit" when you've been working on it for god knows how many hours it can really dent your pride. I've never had a problem with people criticizing things I’ve done, I’d rather people where honest and said that they're not feeling it. But its cool to have something to work on, if someone tells you your beats need work at least you know and you can go away and try to improve.

I suppose it really depends on why you started producing. I just genuinely enjoy doing it, if people give it a listen and like it well that’s just a bonus (There’s no point writing something and just leaving it to rot on your hard drive, you've got to put yourself out there).

I am coming round to your way of thinking guys....it's just that having my music critcised badly and bluntly is a new experience to me, what with being new to the game. If it happens again which no doubt it will the best thing to do is take it on the chin, be mature about it, and improve the next time round.

[stappard]

If it happens again which no doubt it will the best thing to do is take it on the chin, be mature about it, and improve the next time round.

You got it man People tend to remember when producers act up on forums. Zomby's still ledendary

[jaydot]

Link?

[kidlogic]

I generally take it when someone cant give a reason why "its shit" that they just dont like the track due to their personal tastes and leave it at that. I think all most country music "is shit" so everyone has their opinions on whats good or not. Or I take it that they're just a generally miserable person who enjoys trying to make others feel bad via the faceless interwebs. Youtube comments are good for illustrating the latter point.

Now, if they offer constructive technical criticism Ill usually take it into consideration and make changes if they're making sense - ie "eq out that freq at 250hz thats causing the muddiness" or "that bit there is out of phase". If they tell me they dont like a snare or would have done the melody different, thats artistic criticism and thats also their opinion, and I will change something if it makes way more sense and will accomplish what I was trying to do better than what I did. Most of the time though I spend a ton of time picking sounds and since its my song, its my opinion that matters most in that regard.

My long winded point is ignore those who say "its shit" without giving reasons to back up why and value those who are genuinely trying to be constructive.

[jaydot]

It's made me take a few tracks off my soundcloud, and think maybe I should "release" music only when it really is as good as I can get it.

Question is how do you know if you don't get the feedback?

[stappard]

Link?

http://www.dubstepforum.com/zomby-memor ... 23959.html

Some mega primadonna lulz in there

[FSTZ]

I posted this tune in the dubs forum called Delicious

it got 2 replies

2 weeks ago...I droped the tune at the club and the dancefloor went insane....

that is how I knew I had a good tune on my hands.

after a while you'll figure out whats going to work ahead of time, and that is what being an experienced producer has to offer

if you keep plugging away, you'll eventually have a series of breakthroughs and the quality of your work will begin to exponentially accelerate

but step one is to stop looking to other people for validation becuase: A. it's never going to satisfy you and B. it really doesn't matter what people think and C. people can be dicks lol

keep your head down and keep making music.. resurface only when you have become a soundsystem samurai

my 2 cents

[cloak and dagger]

Question is how do you know if you don't get the feedback?

Well it depends on the reasons why you make music in the first place. If you're happy with it and want to share it, then nobody's opinion should stop you. Kidlogic's post made more sense than any other in this thread...take all criticism and feedback without complaining, and treat it as important as it deserves to be. I've received loads of feedback that I chose not to follow for various reasons as well as feedback that's been really helpful. The important thing is to listen to it all and then filter it according to its usefulness. If I play dubstep to a dnb head and he tells me it's too slow, I'm not going to speed it up just because he said so, and if my dad says it sounds like noise, I'm not going to trash it...but at the same time, these are still perspectives from listeners and should be respected.

But in the end, it's your art, and it's your statement, so you should be proud of it while taking advantage of every opportunity to make it as good as it can possibly be.