Piracy and its effects

[futures_untold]

I'm unsure if some of the early rave tunes can be found on digi stores. I don't collect vinyl, so Youtube rips it is for me...

The price I pay is that the quality is generally poor compared to a purchased wav or vinyl. I don't DJ either, so Youtube rips suffice for me.

That said, I've bought all my software except for Adobe Creative Suite and Cinema 4D. I will purchase both when funds allow, especially as I appreciate (from first hand experience) how long coding takes. Basically, software gives me a tangible product I can use to perform tasks (and earn cash). Music is just there to tickle my earlobes occasionally.

To listen to music, sometimes (rarely) I listen to the radio, sometimes (often) I go Youtube playlist surfing and I regularly stumble across gems on Myspace/Soundcloud.

When I do find gems on Myspace/Soundcloud/Youtube etc, I rip 'em so I don't have to press play on the flash player every time the tune ends. If web players had a loop button for each song I wouldn't even rip tracks. I'm more than happy to visit somebodies Myspace to listen to their music. The benefit for listeners visiting a website is that we also see profile graphics, photos and can contact the artist if we please... For me, websites like Myspace (when pimped) impart the same vibe as album art and posters used to back in the day.

Perhaps Myspace really is the way forwards after all????

[hurlingdervish]

and prices for nights/booking bigger , established etc names will go up to compensate for those lost record sales (assuming they want to keep the same style salary)
there's a yin and yang to it all

or they could compensate for those lost record sales by taking their ego out their ass and selling the fekking tune

[deadly_habit]

yea there really is no leg to stand on if a label, artist, company etc complains about lost sales if they don't offer something in that format. you can't expect your average casual listener to go out and buy a turntable and all that that entails for a couple tunes vs downloading a scene rip of it online. not everyone is a dj...

[amphibian]

just to kind of flip the script on you a lil as a web designer how would you feel if you spent an assload of time custom designing a site for someone and someone just straight jacks the code and uses it as a template.

Excellent point, but not too much of an issue to me tbh. I contribute a lot to the open source world, having released many development libraries and contributing to large frameworks. The only code I get paid for is the stuff I do at work specifically for clients.

Further to that, because of the free coding I do, I have been headhunted numerous times. Windows of opportunity open constantly. This is why I believe that giving away what you do for free (if you can afford to), is well worth it in the long run. I am firmly of the belief that the more you try and control what it is that you create, the more you are limiting yourself.

So deadly, your point is a good one - just does not relate to me very well

[amphibian]

yea there really is no leg to stand on if a label, artist, company etc complains about lost sales if they don't offer something in that format. you can't expect your average casual listener to go out and buy a turntable and all that that entails for a couple tunes vs downloading a scene rip of it online. not everyone is a dj...

Also on this point - DJing is moving more and more digital with each passing year. Many traditionalists hate this but I think this is great for artists, again reflecting on the point that they can get their own tunes out more easily and cheaply (no more master vinyls) and spread far more easily. Many producers (especially in the local dubstep scene) are either using cdjs or high quality wave/mp3s.etc. I've been to a huge number of events lately that are using traktor scratch pro with the time-coded vinyls.

[Sharmaji]

^ seriously, who plays vinyl-and-acetates-only anymore?

Only dudes i can think of are Hatcha, Joe Nice, and Taal Mala in Vancouver-- and hatcha i'm not even sure of. It's a tough, tough world for that.

The only vinyl-only dubstep label i can think of is DMZ (and even then, I know i'm not the only one who bought mp3's of the early releases off of bleep.com while waiting for the vinyls to arrive stateside)... who've done 1 release in the last year. Deep Medi went digital this year.

Things coming out on vinyl and not digital isn't part of the discussion any more--- vinyl lost. it's growing overground as boomers buy re-issues of records, but underground.... yikes. really... fat beats just closed in NYC last week. we have 1, maybe 1.5 record stores for all 8.5 million people that carries current EDM on vinyl. it's a tough game, stateside for sure.

But yeah, deadly's right: piracy rendered the retail of music irrelevant. People will pay good money for the EXPERIENCE though. The things that are doing well in the states are, outside of Lady Gaga, the things worth going to: Coachella, Bumbershoot, ATP, Bisco, Lollapalooza. As a fan, you get to experience music in a way that's been declining in the states for far too long.

So you as an artist, you as a DJ, you as a performer-- what experience do you offer, that no one else does? It used to be about who's got the freshest plates, and in a way it still is... but.......?

[futures_untold]

Dave fella, check yer PM's

[Sharmaji]

just did amigo, check yrs

[deadly_habit]

it's all well and good to bitch and debate about the subject, but really what are labels, companies, people and the ilk doing to be proactive about the situation rather than reactive with ridiculous drm, destructive media, proprietary formats and copy protection schemes/devices.
it's always irritating as a consumer to be punished or expected to jump through hoops for doing the right thing vs the pirates.

[Phigure]

it's all well and good to bitch and debate about the subject, but really what are labels, companies, people and the ilk doing to be proactive about the situation rather than reactive with ridiculous drm, destructive media, proprietary formats and copy protection schemes/devices.
it's always irritating as a consumer to be punished or expected to jump through hoops for doing the right thing vs the pirates.

bingo

[wormcode]

Me: a link to some music
Them: Sounds cool i'll download the album

That's pretty much the reply I have been getting from everyone I know for the last few years. Started with just a couple of geek friends, but now even casual computer users. It's to the point where I've stopped linking music to some people I know because I know all they really want to do is download it to help fill up their 500 GB ipod.

Mp3 players can be great but I can't help but think they are at least a small part of the problem with piracy. I mean who really needs that much music? It would cost probably a couple hundred grand to fill one of those things up with legitimately purchased music.

Pretty interesting interview: http://musiciancoaching.com/music-busin ... ic-piracy/

[futures_untold]

True that. I haven't listened to even half of the music on my HD

Thus, just because it got 'shared', doesn't mean it's doing damage.

My brother told me he likes Kings of Leon. I had a few albums of theirs floating around. But considering I saw a three album box set of theirs in HMV for £10, I figured it would be a nicer present to him to have the box set than to copy him off the albums digitally. That was the last money I spent on a music purchase, but at that price it felt good.

[amphibian]

Me: a link to some music
Them: Sounds cool i'll download the album

That's pretty much the reply I have been getting from everyone I know for the last few years. Started with just a couple of geek friends, but now even casual computer users. It's to the point where I've stopped linking music to some people I know because I know all they really want to do is download it to help fill up their 500 GB ipod.

Mp3 players can be great but I can't help but think they are at least a small part of the problem with piracy. I mean who really needs that much music? It would cost probably a couple hundred grand to fill one of those things up with legitimately purchased music.

And yet if that 1 person goes to an event for that artist - it was well worth it for the artist. If they don't like it, then they probably would never have bought the album anyway, so the artist has not lost at all.

[deadly_habit]

what about artists who don't perform?
burial for example
some producers shouldn't/can't dj and vice versa as well

[wormcode]

Thus, just because it got 'shared', doesn't mean it's doing damage.

Probably not financially since most wouldn't have bought it anyway, and not immediately... but I think it just adds to the whole thing. Lots of people don't see music the same way any more. They see files on a computer, which I think depreciates music as a whole after time. My little cousins didn't understand my vinyl when they saw it recently. Being asked "why do you still buy music?" by more than a few people makes me feel odd. Like I'm doing something wrong, haha. Anyone ever get that question?

Damn that probably makes me sound like an old grump but I swear I'm in my mid 20s. I'm not anti-digital either... that's just some of my thoughts.

[the get down]

As easy as it is to find cracks of waves bundles, I simply can't be arsed to pirate them cuz I don't like their plugins.

Waves plugins are worthless they don't even command me to check out there demos/cracks....

haha no mate

effects/affects

[AllNightDayDream]

To be honest, most of the people who pirate wouldn't buy it in the first place.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if people pirated my music (I'd just give it away for free anyways). Its free promotion and the fact of the matter is I'd be happy to know that people enjoy my music enough to pirate it. However, I completely understand and respect that a lot artists arent like minded.

I'll be honest and admit that I tend to pirate a LOT of music. I don't really have an income to support the massive appetite I have. The music I tend to pirate is mostly the huge label stuff though, where I know less of the money is going to the actual artist. Or, for example, a band where the original members are deceased, and the estate is in some asshole's hands. In a relatively small scene such as dubstep, I think the artists could use the money a bit more, as well as (IMO) deserving it more. Although they do get way more money from playing live

If the music is something I know I listen to a lot, and if its quality music, I'll always buy it.


It'd be cool to see more albums along the lines of Radiohead's In Rainbows' "pay what you want". I remember paying $25 because I liked it so much.

Spot on

Also, you can go on pretty lights' website and download any of their albums/EP's for whatever you like, like radiohead did. I thought that was the coolest thing ever

[futures_untold]

Thus, just because it got 'shared', doesn't mean it's doing damage.

Probably not financially since most wouldn't have bought it anyway, and not immediately... but I think it just adds to the whole thing. Lots of people don't see music the same way any more. They see files on a computer, which I think depreciates music as a whole after time. My little cousins didn't understand my vinyl when they saw it recently. Being asked "why do you still buy music?" by more than a few people makes me feel odd. Like I'm doing something wrong, haha. Anyone ever get that question?

Damn that probably makes me sound like an old grump but I swear I'm in my mid 20s. I'm not anti-digital either... that's just some of my thoughts.

Caught my dad ripping his entire CD collection and burning it for his girlfriend. She then borught her collection over and he ripped that too. Now he has both collections on his MP3 player which he takes traveling with him.

I asked him if he was bothered about the legalities of ripping music but you can guess the answer. He also was overjoyed to find internet radio and online music catalogs that give you free previews. All this from a middle class law abiding citizen.

[deadly_habit]

it should also be worth a mention that the majority of the larger names that do the free/pay what you want for our material can get away with it, because they already have a strong built up fanbase, can fall back on touring and merchandising, and more than likely have a bunch of cash already saved up and invested from the old model before the digital age made a dent in their pockets.
basically this model works well for larger more established acts and not so much for the indie labels or newcomers.

[wormcode]

Also, you can go on pretty lights' website and download any of their albums/EP's for whatever you like, like radiohead did. I thought that was the coolest thing ever

Yeah the "pay what you want" is something I think can be good and it's nice to see people experimenting with it. Bands like NiN, Radiohead, etc can do this and expect decent figures as they are long since established, but I'd be interested to see data from some of the independent electronic artists doing that on Bandcamp for example. I think their multi-format and pay system is pretty good and much better than most. I also like ithinkmusic's system for independent artists.