Why Music should be for the love..

[paravrais]

Oh and being in it for the love and wanting to get paid are not mutually exclusive.

That's exactly what I was gonna say.

For me getting signed is more about getting my name out there and earning respect than getting money from sales. It's much easier to get DJ slots if you can say you have X releases on X labels and it's damn hard to get a slot at a good night round here.

Btw, slightly off topic but how long after sending to a label and hearing nothing back should you wait before contacting another label about the same tunes? I recently finished the first song I've done that I feel really deserves to be signed and I don't wanna let it die just because the first label I sent it to haven't got back to me..

Don't wait for a response. Send it to labels, if they want to sign it, they'll contact you.

I figured it was bad etiquette to send the same tune off to loads of labels because then one could get back to you wanting to sign and you have to be like "oh sorry I already signed it to these other guys.." then the label that got back to you second might not want to deal with you in future?? Or is that just paranoid thinking XD

[cloak and dagger]

Oh and being in it for the love and wanting to get paid are not mutually exclusive.

That's exactly what I was gonna say.

For me getting signed is more about getting my name out there and earning respect than getting money from sales. It's much easier to get DJ slots if you can say you have X releases on X labels and it's damn hard to get a slot at a good night round here.

Btw, slightly off topic but how long after sending to a label and hearing nothing back should you wait before contacting another label about the same tunes? I recently finished the first song I've done that I feel really deserves to be signed and I don't wanna let it die just because the first label I sent it to haven't got back to me..

Don't wait for a response. Send it to labels, if they want to sign it, they'll contact you.

I figured it was bad etiquette to send the same tune off to loads of labels because then one could get back to you wanting to sign and you have to be like "oh sorry I already signed it to these other guys.." then the label that got back to you second might not want to deal with you in future?? Or is that just paranoid thinking XD

That's just how things work. At the very least, it starts a dialogue with the label and you can send them other tunes, which they may like even more. You're not committing to anything by sending a demo.

[paravrais]

Cheers for the advice man, I'll send things out to more people in future then

[daft cunt]

Perfect your craft before you start making giant leaps to get shit signed

[deadly_habit]

just to add on what pete said about hunting down the labels worth a damn
some indicators something might be awry:
was the artist supporting the label before there release then suddenly goes silent and vice versa
constant rotation of new talent and one time artist releases
just saying those 2 mainly because usually when you find a label with an ethos and a trusting relationship is built most artists tend to stay loyal or at least with a constant relationship
there def are variables that come into play especially when it comes to release schedules especially in the physical medium world
tentative only has it's stuff on 3 sites at the moment, but i've always ran it diy and do everything personally so it's def been a learning experience where i yield 100% control. what's nice about the net and friendly communities like this is we can pool together and share our experiences and try to offer advice so other people don't have to learn through the mistakes and problems those of us with experience good and bad have gone through.
it's easy to put up your blinders when it comes to signing deals due to excitement, but in this day and age where social networking and sites like bandcamp are catching on more and more labels (i use the term loosely) aren't quite the top of the food chain as they used to be imo.
oh and mainly if it looks to good to be true and that's what your gut instinct is telling you, it's usually right.

[3rdeye]

excellent thread Legend4ry and good advice from others here too!

[4bstr4ck3r]

Yes, great thread. thanks for sharing your experiences !

but imo,

DO IT YOURSELF !...

... or with serious people who do their things by themselves !

[deadly_habit]

diy while is my ethos and great from a small label is extremely time consuming and definitely has it's limitations when compared to labels with p&d deals through distros and using various services. could list the advantages of both, but need some coffee first and don't know how many people would be interested.

[krispy]

So is there any disadvantage to signing up with a smaller, less known label for your first releases and then switching later on?

I mean, if the small label is giving you the payouts that they agreed to and if people are buying your songs then is there a problem?
As long as you actually are seeing the financial statement from the distributor then it should be all good.... i think?

[legend4ry]

So is there any disadvantage to signing up with a smaller, less known label for your first releases and then switching later on?

I mean, if the small label is giving you the payouts that they agreed to and if people are buying your songs then is there a problem?
As long as you actually are seeing the financial statement from the distributor then it should be all good.... i think?

No, of course not but could you get the same amount of publicity (cause lets be honest, 90% of us only sign stuff to get a bigger name for ourself and if the label breaks even, we're happy) without signing the tracks with a little self drive, thats the kind of argument/advice I am giving.

[deadly_habit]

it's also a matter of how you'd like to divide your time
do you mind doing a bunch of promotion work, marketing etc or would you just rather be in the studio working on tunes
that is the main advantages to labels

[krispy]

it's also a matter of how you'd like to divide your time
do you mind doing a bunch of promotion work, marketing etc or would you just rather be in the studio working on tunes
that is the main advantages to labels

Well to be honest, when you put it that way, I would rather just be working on tunes then promo promo promo

[abZ]

it's also a matter of how you'd like to divide your time
do you mind doing a bunch of promotion work, marketing etc or would you just rather be in the studio working on tunes
that is the main advantages to labels

Well to be honest, when you put it that way, I would rather just be working on tunes then promo promo promo

Yup. Me as well. That is why I am getting out of the label business.

[kid simple]

Thanks for the advice! Really insightful/helpful.

[Sharmaji]

it's also a matter of how you'd like to divide your time
do you mind doing a bunch of promotion work, marketing etc or would you just rather be in the studio working on tunes
that is the main advantages to labels

yeah but as artist-- even if there isn't a label promoting your works, it's still up to you to do as much promo as possible. w/ a label, you may be part of a larger strategy w/ a full-on PR campaign, radio campaign, tour support, etc... even then, you can still do MORE, and be in control of it as an artist.

[jameshk]

I make music because I love doing it, no other reason. If I was in it for the money I would've quit years ago.

[abZ]

just to add on what pete said about hunting down the labels worth a damn
some indicators something might be awry:
was the artist supporting the label before there release then suddenly goes silent and vice versa
constant rotation of new talent and one time artist releases
just saying those 2 mainly because usually when you find a label with an ethos and a trusting relationship is built most artists tend to stay loyal or at least with a constant relationship
there def are variables that come into play especially when it comes to release schedules especially in the physical medium world
tentative only has it's stuff on 3 sites at the moment, but i've always ran it diy and do everything personally so it's def been a learning experience where i yield 100% control. what's nice about the net and friendly communities like this is we can pool together and share our experiences and try to offer advice so other people don't have to learn through the mistakes and problems those of us with experience good and bad have gone through.
it's easy to put up your blinders when it comes to signing deals due to excitement, but in this day and age where social networking and sites like bandcamp are catching on more and more labels (i use the term loosely) aren't quite the top of the food chain as they used to be imo.
oh and mainly if it looks to good to be true and that's what your gut instinct is telling you, it's usually right.

Honestly I think both of those things are too much too assume for anyone. I have had artist mysteriously disappear and then reappear come check time. A lot of people don't want to put in the work, they just want the label to handle it. When this happens you shouldn't be surprised if your release doesn't do good. I started the label just to help artists that I felt were slept on get their feet wet. As a label owner literally gets pennies per hour and it's unfair to put it all on them. I have also had several artist take off after they released with me and were seeking vinyl releases which I don't do so as much as I would have liked it, I couldn't get follow up releases. I was always my hope to have a roster rather than seek out new artists every month. It's a lot easier to work with a group of people that have an understanding with you.

[AfterEmpire]

Legend4ry, this is fantastic advice. TY for imparting a little bit of your experience on me.

[Basic A]

Bad experiences with labels are rife especially when you have a scene where the economics are small scale and business is run by creatives.

When I first was offered a release on Inperspective's dubstep sister label Inprint, I was over the moon. Inperspective was a label I really looked upto and attended all the nights (trekking to LDN for them from Bristol each time). Just over a year and a half later the label owner was still saying it was coming out (we had the tp for about a year by this point), regardless of there being no promo and no physical product produced. It was massively long, I ended up falling out massively with the guy who runs it, who I really looked up to. It was frustrating, disappointing and a waste of everyone's time and money.

THIS SAID. There's quite a few posts on this thread including Legendary's imply that labels, especially the small independents, are out to sell and run. I want to set this right. The problem is, it's far too easy to claim you're a label nowdays. 30 sales on Beatport doesn't cut it for me. No matter how small you think you are, you can do better than this yourself and you don't have to sell anything. There's no money in releasing records now, the money you make from it is more a bonus than anything else. The money you do make is from the gigs and the hopeful licensing and syncing deal you get off the back of a decent label pushing your stuff.

We pay everyone an advance for our releases, so straight away you have some money. Because of the extra costs we incur for the pretty artwork and free mp3s, we have a rather high break even point for vinyl. On an average release we will make this with a little room to breathe. So the money has to come from digital sales if at all. What we do actively do is once we have had a commitment from an artist, we will then start including them in all our promo. Might be online, might be printed, might be in the actual nights we host ourselves (11 Tigers, TRG, Hyetal and Coleco, Soul Motive Party in Brussels next week if you're interested). but you would be able to deduce this from going over our website, you can see the blog posts about nights our artists have played, the reviews in printed and online media, the sections dedicated to the artists and the fact we have our own shop setup.

That's not to say everyone we worked with is happy. We have faced crippling delays and legal action with Headhunter / Geiom's release resulting in that release never being sold digitally. Which fucks me and no doubt fucks Tony and Kamal off. We're lucky in that the release was more them helping us than us helping them. Bless both those guys as they're gs.

I guess the bottom line as always is research, if you think you're sat on a couple of absolute cracking tunes and want to actively raise your profile as an artist, then a decent small/medium independent is the way forward. But you gotta research, what are their previous releases? who have they worked with? have you spoken to the label artists? are they compatible with you vibes wise? are they actively promoting and making things happen for their artists? There's lots of shitty net labels out there will will be more damaging than helpful. Don't be stuck with one of them.

If you have a surplus of time, if you have the dedication, the technical skills (or someone with them) and a keen ability to network, then starting your own label is a definite feasibility. But again, what are your reasons for doing this? Raise your own profile, push other artists, make some money? Because any of these take a lot of time and effort. There's only one thing worse with being signed to shitty tiny net label and that's becoming one.

imo.

You have 1337 posts.

Do you really even wanna keep making more at that rate?

[deadly_habit]

it's also a matter of how you'd like to divide your time
do you mind doing a bunch of promotion work, marketing etc or would you just rather be in the studio working on tunes
that is the main advantages to labels

yeah but as artist-- even if there isn't a label promoting your works, it's still up to you to do as much promo as possible. w/ a label, you may be part of a larger strategy w/ a full-on PR campaign, radio campaign, tour support, etc... even then, you can still do MORE, and be in control of it as an artist.

of yea it's def you get what you put in regardless, just you don't have to put in as much as when you're flying solo
by no means am trying to give the impression that getting signed is some magic ticket