racism and policing DMZ, mass, raves

[slowlygoingdeaf]

yeah the vibe at dubstep nights is really refreshing

its like loefah says in the breezeblock warz, paraphrasing "its not moody at all...people don't really come out to check girls and its not really a drug music either, and theres not really a ego clash with the mcs because its not mc driven"...and just like he says everyone is not coming up to you wanting to be your friend but its still sociable because everyone is there for the music.

ive been to many hip hop nights and there is almost always something poppin off and its stupid because it can kill the atmosphere and darken the night if youve got some idiot in front of you with a perpetual screwface (dubstep you get screwface, but from the music!).

then again it depends on what hip hop show you go to. ive seen de la soul, prince paul and j5 and the atmosphere was really nice everytime, no problems at all.

[plastician]

Grime raves can be good or bad - but usually its the night's reputation that goes before the genre.

I've been to a multitude of grime nights - the younger the audience the more aggy / troublesome the event is.

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

I would never play at a grime under 18's event. No way.

I think a lot of the people who go to Sidewinder don't actually know why they are going - 30% of the people there only know artists like Wiley and Pay As You Go Cartel and are just going there because they think its "where all the people who like garridge go". These are the same people who turn up in sunglasses and drink champagne.

I actually met a group of girls on holiday who spent a 21st birthday at Sidewinder - none of them even knew who JME was.

Its a shame because I really respect the promoters of Sidewinder. They put on fantastic events and really want the scene to move forward. There are a lot of level headed grime fans out there like me who would love to watch some good artists perform in a nice environment. Bristol Sidewinder was brilliant with Dizzee and Newham Gens.

[obiwan]

I dunno what it's like in London, but in Bristol the big Grime nights have a majority following of a black crowd.

Grime maybe, dubstep definitely not!

[Sharmaji]

over here in nyc we have the same bullshit and the same racial profiling by the cops. in fact the hardest part about throwing parties in nyc is dealing with the strangle hold put forth by the police's zoning and nightlife taskforce, ironically called the "Quality Of Life Squad". they regularily put nightclubs under surveillance and send undercover cops into big parties to monitor activity.
in the last 2 years we've seen the introduction of ID scanner's which scan driving licences of everyone entering the club to see if the ID is real as well as seeing if the person is a felon or has a criminal record.

we've been very lucky in this scene to have such positivity and peace vibes. i really hope that continues.

it's the B.E.S.T. squad homie-- remember rothko? They openly stake out bars/clubs/venues based on lists submitted to them by community boards as 'problem' areas and then throw massive fines on them for the most minimal of things... no carpet in front of the door-----> $30,000 fine-----> shut down of the club.

pretty much every night in NYC is chill and respectable these days; the continuing douchebag-ification of manhattan, though, means that rich fuckers who don't want 7 guys smoking outside the club get their way, and the rest of us lose.

ugh.

[mos dan]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

[j dub u]

wow. sorry if this is a repost.
copied from:
http://history-is-made-at-night.blogspo ... ppers.html

...When indie kids jump around, it’s moshing. When black people do it, it’s a riot...

this is how the police see it

this is total bollocks there's a big difference to moshing and fighting.

Moshing is when people like it and its on equal grounds in a mosh pit if you fall over there 6 dudes pushing people back to help pick you up.

If that was a grime rave and it kicked off your head would be stamped on 50 times before the bouncer got there.

And yes i've seen this happen.

Allow the hate for other genres.

Still its a totally different thing you don't mosh at a grime rave and you don't hardly fight at a metal/indie gig ( seen maybe one small ruckus in 20 gigs? and was broke up before the second punch could land). So you really can't compare it. Still DMZ isn't a grime rave anyways so why there bringing dmz into it I do not know.

[seckle]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

please start your own blog mate. you always have a great perspective on grime.

[plastician]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

I think I just had a bad experience.... just never in my life had I been waiting at a bar for a drink only to be purposefully barged into then squared up to by somebody who has nothing to say to me other than "FUCKING SMILE THEN"..... to which I replied "What is there to smile about? I'm waiting for a drink mate?"

And this comes from somebody who goes out in Croydon nearly every weekend.

I've never been a target for trouble in my life.... I'd like to think I was giving somebody a reason to start on me... I was just minding my own business waiting at the bar staring at my own reflection in the mirrors behind the optics on the bar.

The thing I hated most about it was the fact the guy backed down when he realised there were a few people with me.... he only started cos I am a short guy standing on what he thought was "my own".

The music on the night was decent.... although Bristol was 100 times better a few weeks later

[rudeski damager]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

I think I just had a bad experience.... just never in my life had I been waiting at a bar for a drink only to be purposefully barged into then squared up to by somebody who has nothing to say to me other than "FUCKING SMILE THEN"..... to which I replied "What is there to smile about? I'm waiting for a drink mate?"

And this comes from somebody who goes out in Croydon nearly every weekend.

I've never been a target for trouble in my life.... I'd like to think I was giving somebody a reason to start on me... I was just minding my own business waiting at the bar staring at my own reflection in the mirrors behind the optics on the bar.

The thing I hated most about it was the fact the guy backed down when he realised there were a few people with me.... he only started cos I am a short guy standing on what he thought was "my own".

The music on the night was decent.... although Bristol was 100 times better a few weeks later

Oi I was there Plastic.

U Know someone got shanked in V.I.P. that night?

Whole place was on a hype.

[plastician]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

I think I just had a bad experience.... just never in my life had I been waiting at a bar for a drink only to be purposefully barged into then squared up to by somebody who has nothing to say to me other than "FUCKING SMILE THEN"..... to which I replied "What is there to smile about? I'm waiting for a drink mate?"

And this comes from somebody who goes out in Croydon nearly every weekend.

I've never been a target for trouble in my life.... I'd like to think I was giving somebody a reason to start on me... I was just minding my own business waiting at the bar staring at my own reflection in the mirrors behind the optics on the bar.

The thing I hated most about it was the fact the guy backed down when he realised there were a few people with me.... he only started cos I am a short guy standing on what he thought was "my own".

The music on the night was decent.... although Bristol was 100 times better a few weeks later

Oi I was there Plastic.

U Know someone got shanked in V.I.P. that night?

Whole place was on a hype.

I didn't even know that

I've always avoided VIP areas at any rave or event - I like to get a feel for the music the same way the punters do

Although I do recall spending a little time there after my incident at the bar in room 2. Its quite ironic that I would say the main reason I avoid the VIP areas is because I don't like to feel like i am part of some kind of "elite" group at any event. Unfortunately for me I spent my time there purely because it was the only place in that venue I felt safe - as I was surrounded by people who actually have respect for me.

I remember walking thru the dance thinking it was screwface city.

Bristol a few weeks later was a complete breath of fresh air - spent the whole of Newham Gens set in the audience and loved it. The only hostility I felt was upstairs at the back bar, that was until Big Narstie stopped me to chat, after that all the watchful eyes seemed to switch off. Still - nobody should ever feel that people are staring them down.

I just hate the fact it goes on - seemingly for no reason. I've never got involved in any kind of music dramas so I can't understand why anyone would have a reason to do me something? Sidewinder are looking to do another event in Bristol in June so I'm hoping they get a nice crowd there and not half of Swindon's beef-seekers. I'm looking to drop a full on dubstep set if i am booked, just to see how it goes down. I reckon the more twisted Coki & Skream-esque stuff is as good as grime to the untrained ear.

[dub_warrior]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

I think I just had a bad experience.... just never in my life had I been waiting at a bar for a drink only to be purposefully barged into then squared up to by somebody who has nothing to say to me other than "FUCKING SMILE THEN"..... to which I replied "What is there to smile about? I'm waiting for a drink mate?"

And this comes from somebody who goes out in Croydon nearly every weekend.

I've never been a target for trouble in my life.... I'd like to think I was giving somebody a reason to start on me... I was just minding my own business waiting at the bar staring at my own reflection in the mirrors behind the optics on the bar.

The thing I hated most about it was the fact the guy backed down when he realised there were a few people with me.... he only started cos I am a short guy standing on what he thought was "my own".

The music on the night was decent.... although Bristol was 100 times better a few weeks later

Oi I was there Plastic.

U Know someone got shanked in V.I.P. that night?

Whole place was on a hype.

I didn't even know that

I've always avoided VIP areas at any rave or event - I like to get a feel for the music the same way the punters do

Although I do recall spending a little time there after my incident at the bar in room 2. Its quite ironic that I would say the main reason I avoid the VIP areas is because I don't like to feel like i am part of some kind of "elite" group at any event. Unfortunately for me I spent my time there purely because it was the only place in that venue I felt safe - as I was surrounded by people who actually have respect for me.

I remember walking thru the dance thinking it was screwface city.

Bristol a few weeks later was a complete breath of fresh air - spent the whole of Newham Gens set in the audience and loved it. The only hostility I felt was upstairs at the back bar, that was until Big Narstie stopped me to chat, after that all the watchful eyes seemed to switch off. Still - nobody should ever feel that people are staring them down.

I just hate the fact it goes on - seemingly for no reason. I've never got involved in any kind of music dramas so I can't understand why anyone would have a reason to do me something? Sidewinder are looking to do another event in Bristol in June so I'm hoping they get a nice crowd there and not half of Swindon's beef-seekers. I'm looking to drop a full on dubstep set if i am booked, just to see how it goes down. I reckon the more twisted Coki & Skream-esque stuff is as good as grime to the untrained ear.

Goodluck Dubstep is forward music. all im hearing now is Grime mc's making swag hip-hop
Dubstep has bought uk music back to what it is.
reggae influenced euro dance,with uk darkness

[djkdubcamp]

Interesting article in last week's Time Out London about policing of grime nights:

"Imagine a society where the police force says which musicians can and can't perform. Actually, there's no need, it is happening already. So what has the Met got against grime?

Our Nightlife team has long rated DMZ at Brixton’s Mass. ‘We won’t do black nights, we just can’t have them here,’ says a member of the Mass staff who wishes to remain anonymous. ‘The police don’t want us to. They’ve told us not to put them on. The police now have this thing called Club Focus; we have to provide the name, address, date of birth and last three gigs for every DJ and promoter. We’ve had to hire someone full-time to keep on top of it. We don’t get any trouble at DMZ, it’s brilliant. The police are closing a lot of nights down in Brixton, soon black people won’t have anywhere to go.’ Perhaps DMZ escapes scrutiny because – despite being about bass-heavy, urban music – it avoids the grime tag.

Lethal [Bizzle] released his dynamite single ‘Pow’ in 2004 and was immediately cast straight into the centre of the grime scene. The same single, says Khan [his manager], caused the police to refuse to let him play anywhere. [Lethal says] 'There hasn’t been a proper rave up in, oh man, I couldn’t even tell you. Certain areas get silly dickheads going, and there’s the possibility that something might happen. If it does, it’s the artist’s fault. When indie kids jump around, it’s moshing. When black people do it, it’s a riot.’

I put all this to DI Darren Warner of the Met’s clubs and vice department: ‘Part of our ethos as police officers in London is to create a safe environment. Our ambition is to risk assess every nightclub in London but obviously we can’t. Clearly, if it’s a Duran Duran tribute night, we’re not going to be expecting too much of a problem. What that actually means is that we ask venue owners to complete some forms and send in some basic details of what they want to do. We risk assessed 130 events in January and, in the past three months, only two events have been cancelled by us. There are only so many options we’ve got if we think that an event is going to cause harm: we can beef up the venue’s security, we can beef up the policing, or the absolute outside option, we can cancel it.’

‘Which events did you cancel?’‘I can’t say, but the reality is, there just aren’t that many grime nights.’‘But isn’t that because the police won’t let them take place?’‘We can’t ignore recent events, let’s put it that way. If a promoter has had violence at an event, and they’re putting on a similar club night in two weeks, we’d be negligent if we didn’t try and provide a safe environment.’

‘So if someone’s putting on a grime night, how do they go about dealing with the police?’‘They should email us (clubsfocusdeskco14@met.police.uk) about the specific night. We’d like to know about it and we’ll go through them on an individual basis. This isn’t genre-targetted, not at all. I’d like to say that our approach works. We’ve seen a significant reduction in violence and gun crime in the clubs we risk assess.’ " (full article Time Out London, March 7 2007)

[/quote]

Ive played garage and grime in clubs all over nottingham from the age of 16. At 1st when garage was the real deal it was all about vibes and just shocking out. It promoted goodness in the music. People behaved themselfs and raves went sweet. Then all of a sudden it all changed to grime and you started to hear tunes like pulse x and bongo which were just too gritty. Dont know if it was the sound of the tune or a special foumula that made people loose there minds. Then i remember sidewinder bonfire bonanza 2002 were everyone started to know about roll deep and then there was gun shots in the rave. After people started to know about grime propper it just blew up Beef everywere in notts. Rave by rave got locked off all over notts. Sticky and simon sez used to come to media on a reggs. Then people got too crazy and got locked off. People getting shanked the lot.

In the above post it says and i quote;

"When indie kids jump around, it’s moshing. When black people do it, it’s a riot.’

I understand what your saying there but there is a bigggg difference. Ive been to dnb raves and inde raves when there jumping as somone said u do get picked up if u fall and carry on.

In the gime raves it stil is kina the same but u step on the wrong guys toes, spill the wrong guys drink or u could be drunk stearing out a guy by mistake. YOU IN FOR IT. Ive seen it happen and it aint nice. This doesnt happen all time tho.

Majority of the fights that break out in clubs is because of recent beef that happened outside the club and they just use the club as a meeting place. The reason for this is if u really wanted to do somthing to somone in a club it would be harder to find the culprit in a croud of people then on the street and the main thing is if its a big rave then u know the person your looking for will be there.

The question comes to mind. Is it the music thats bad? or is it just the people that dont come for the vibes that have it in for one another that are spoiling a great type of music?

Obiously if the police are under pressure because there is beef after beef in a rave that they have no controll over what would u expect them to do?

Quiz everyone going into the rave? have an offence filter on the door?

There just gona lock every rave off.

Thats just one side.


The other is and im really sorry to say. The Wrong Mc Will Crash your dance.
Like Rap or Hip hop, Lyrics are there to send a message to another. Same with grime. In oldskool garage there lyrics just used to be there to carry the vibe simlar to Jungle mcs. Now days people can hurt somone harder with lyrics then opposed to a smack in the face.

When people see practice hours, risky roads, lord of the mics etc they forget its only a mic thing and start going crazy and clashing and beefing people.
If your gona mc then have SELF CONTROLL if you cant then dont mc.

The only raves were u can go on in notts right about now were you are garrenteed NO BEEF is DUBSTEP raves. Reason is because its majority white people in there. When people seen me all they wanted to do is shake my hand??I know u get trouble in every club black or white but in the dubstep crouds its just pure vibes and i cant fault that. Im black myself and i can see this is true.
On the other hand. If police wanted to focus on drugs then ............ I used to play in garage raves all the time and only type of drugs i knew about was weed and weed. I went to Dnb raves, inde raves and its like class A's only. I was gob smacked.

So thats why ive started my own regualr dubstep night every week in nottingham. Beef Free, all vibes. I think Dubstep in nottingham is bringing back the vibes with a bit a chill out to go with it. Dubstep aint as hype as grime and if u have the right mcs on your set they dont chat over every tune and know that there doing then i think we be onto a great thing here.

Things like the dubstep forum and dubstep Djs and producers ive met have all been friendly and great people to meet.

Lets keep it that way.


**
This post is written NOT to offend anyone.

[RubiconMan]

DJ DUBCAMP, u spot on there.

[harlesden]

DJ DUBCAMP, u spot on there.

[seen]

Dubstep has bought uk music back to what it is.
reggae influenced euro dance,with uk darkness

your chest

[mos dan]

Most grief I have experienced was at Sidewinder in Swindon last year. Some people just go there on a hype trying to look cool / hard.

Thats not my scene at all. On the other hand the Dirty Canvas nights at the ICA gallery were all very chilled out and aggro-free.

that wasn't my experience of swindon at all, but i know u and charles saw a different vibe.. http://dazeddigital.com/incoming/item.aspx?a=259

dirty canvas is great and the promoters are doing a lot to find a better venue than the ica, because frankly... it's too chilled out. the hype at sidewinder is unmatched imo.

that time out piece is totally on point, and i should know because they nicked the story off me and gave it to one of their staff writers to write.

please start your own blog mate. you always have a great perspective on grime.

thanks m8! but:

http://www.dot-alt.com !!

exclusive wiley interview soon come. watch for guardian wiley feature and check back dazeddigital.com too

[corpsey]

Interesting to read that dubcamp, vibes at dubstep nights in Nottingham are definitely all good or have been so far- and you get a mixture of people in those crowds too, it's not all just students. Big up.

[Littlefoot]

reading the article i find it quite strange as a person of either race to see the race card being pulled on this.. it's all a bit backwards and transparent to see things like that in 2007 in my opinion

[rekordah]

The simple truth to this is that Grime is mainly centred around egotistical(altho in some cases extremely good) MC's who are always chattin about them and their fam etc. whereas dubstep dont got none of that ego shit, anyone who is in the dance is family.

It's got to be said that most Grime raves attract the wrong sort of people, regardless of race.

What plasticman said about never wantin to play at a U18's grime event is very interesting, and extremely understandable. Has far as i can see all the beef/stabbings/shooting that go on in London and Bristol (and proberbly every city in the country) is hardly ever involving over 20's, it's always egotistical wannabe gangster yout!.

It's proberbly not just what goes on IN the grime raves that is putting promoters off and concerning police, but there is proberbly a shitload of beef on the door aswell! imagine being a bouncer an trying to tell a rowdly group of 16 or-so year olds with gangster fronts that they can't come in? recipie for trouble if u ask me!

I know i'm going on but just one more thing. When (young) Grime/Garage MC's spit, it's called 'merking', that gives you feel for the vibe of the currant grime scene! all the beef and aggro would be thrown out the window if there was a family-like scene (ie. dubstep), but right now all there is seperate groups that seemingly hate and want to eradicate each other, even though they are all part of the same scene!

[mos dan]

The simple truth to this is that Grime is mainly centred around egotistical(altho in some cases extremely good) MC's who are always chattin about them and their fam etc. whereas dubstep dont got none of that ego shit, anyone who is in the dance is family.

It's got to be said that most Grime raves attract the wrong sort of people, regardless of race.

What plasticman said about never wantin to play at a U18's grime event is very interesting, and extremely understandable. Has far as i can see all the beef/stabbings/shooting that go on in London and Bristol (and proberbly every city in the country) is hardly ever involving over 20's, it's always egotistical wannabe gangster yout!.

It's proberbly not just what goes on IN the grime raves that is putting promoters off and concerning police, but there is proberbly a shitload of beef on the door aswell! imagine being a bouncer an trying to tell a rowdly group of 16 or-so year olds with gangster fronts that they can't come in? recipie for trouble if u ask me!

I know i'm going on but just one more thing. When (young) Grime/Garage MC's spit, it's called 'merking', that gives you feel for the vibe of the currant grime scene! all the beef and aggro would be thrown out the window if there was a family-like scene (ie. dubstep), but right now all there is seperate groups that seemingly hate and want to eradicate each other, even though they are all part of the same scene!

conjecture and guesswork.

thanks for contributing to the debate.