What do you think "selling out" means? Why keep it locked?

[apmje]

You can be successful and still keep both your musical and personal integrity. It's when you change either to suit the needs/views of others and/or to solely profit.

It's difficult when artists become successful for doing what they do, to know whether when they change direction (inevitable for any self respecting musician) if it's natural or money driven.

See with this, I see it as kinda simple like this. Skream has very much went down the commercial route, we know he still makes some bangers but its obvious where he is going, changed his sound to fit a much more commercial appeal. Whereas Loefah, while its changed drastically from the original dark, halfstep to this new housey, 130 sound has kinda kept more of his integrity in my eyes.

[herbalicious]

There was supposed to be a 'sometimes' at the beginning of my sentence.

Although who's to say people like Dizzee and Skream haven't always wanted to make these kinda tunes but wasn't accessible/acceptable in the world they came from, and are just now utilising the position they're now in to dabble in music they've always dreamt of being able to make?

I'm not sayin it's the case...but I think we often forget some people do actually like pop music.

[apmje]

There was supposed to be a 'sometimes' at the beginning of my sentence.

Although who's to say people like Dizzee and Skream haven't always wanted to make these kinda tunes but wasn't accessible/acceptable in the world they came from, and are just now utilising the position they're now in to dabble in music they've always dreamt of being able to make?

I'm not sayin it's the case...but I think we often forget some people do actually like pop music.

Point but I don't think so. Last time I saw Skream, I just left due to the excessive show boating, effects and cheese of the tunes. We know how capable he is at producing, I can't see any other reason to release poorer tunes except to be commercially viable and to score some pennies. I don't blame him, just not how I'd have personally done it.

And people like pop music? I just thought they were too lazy.

[scspkr99]

I think there's a real danger of over analysis and certainly over intellectualising what is a pretty pointless question anyway.

Were talking about electronic music here, people are entitled to make whatever music for whatever reasons they want, selling out in this context is irrelevant unless you consider what they originally bought into as being massively important when the truth is it really isn't.

To use a couple of names that have been brought up who's to say Skream and Dizzee aren't just doing what most young people want to do which is have a laugh and are doing so while making some money. Suggesting that they are selling out their original fanbase is more a reflection of that fanbase than it is about them.

[apmje]

Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck. I know I won't be seeing Skream again in the future as I don't feel where he is going, so be it.

Just thought I'd throw an example that relates to who/what we know.

[scspkr99]

Honestly, I couldn't give a fuck. I know I won't be seeing Skream again in the future as I don't feel where he is going, so be it.

Just thought I'd throw an example that relates to who/what we know.

Yeah I get that and it seems perfectly reasonable. I'm sorry if my using the Skream example made it look like I was pointing the finger at you, I wasn't.

[apmje]

Na worries!

[Sheff]

one of Wileys bars:
"I can write pages and pages but i need wages"

which is just saying that you can put an insane amounts of work and get little in return. or write one commercially acceptable tune and get a bucket load of money for it, even if they dont really like the music they make they're still winning. cant blame artists for "selling out" really. if you were in the same position im sure a load of you would happily accept the money and the fame.

its a shame that a lot of artists cross over into the mainstream and just completely forget about their fans and the music that brought them to that stage in the first place.
i know theres still alot of mainstream artists that still make tunes like they used to be its rare.

it annoys me though, for example, when dizzee made his first song that went mainstream, the people talk about him like he's a brand new artist who's only just emerged.
dunno why it annoys me actually but it does


^ ^ all that was horribly worded sorry

[Pada]

It doesn't matter.

Dizzee's first album is great - everything else pretty much is shit... but thats up to him - it's his life. Who is anyone to tell someone what they can do?

Nah Showtime is quality as well.

It's no where near boy in da corner though!

boy in da corner is one of my favourite albums, showtime is nowhere near!

and I think most of the grime guys always wanted to be pop stars!

[herbalicious]

I think within grime it's accepted for guys to go make commercial tunes as long as they come back and make grime tunes. Within that scene, bars about making money and getting out of the streets is such a major part of it that, without it being said, they can understand it. As long as they don't sell out completely and can still pump out the odd banger.

Dubstep on the other hand has never been about money. It's a scene purely about music. Purely about progression of a sound. About bass. I think that's why it's frustrating to see (for non producing people within the scene who spend their money going to raves and buying the tunes) when producers with the ability to push it forward in creative way, push it toward the mainstream for financial gain.

Now, I aint one to stop a motherucker from getting his cash, but when it's at the expense of quality music I enjoy hearing (and buying), I'm not so keen. Haha

[Sheff]

amen herbalicious

[scspkr99]

I'll defer to most on here as I was a pretty late convert to dubstep and so am green in many ways.

But nothing in any dance music scene is or was purely about music

[Pada]

You can be successful and still keep both your musical and personal integrity. It's when you change either to suit the needs/views of others and/or to solely profit.

It's difficult when artists become successful for doing what they do, to know whether when they change direction (inevitable for any self respecting musician) if it's natural or money driven.

See with this, I see it as kinda simple like this. Skream has very much went down the commercial route, we know he still makes some bangers but its obvious where he is going, changed his sound to fit a much more commercial appeal. Whereas Loefah, while its changed drastically from the original dark, halfstep to this new housey, 130 sound has kinda kept more of his integrity in my eyes.

The word integrity in this context makes me cringe so hard - urgh!

I don't care if people are making cash they probably love to see thousands of people dancing to their music and like not having to worry about money that's no more or less legitimate than making music for personal enjoyment in your bedroom. At the risk of looking like a just copied my viewpoint blindly I refer back to the video I posted before but this time the start of part 2 - he really puts it better than I ever could!

[Sheff]

i could listen to him talk for ages

[gorillabearbear]

I think within grime it's accepted for guys to go make commercial tunes as long as they come back and make grime tunes. Within that scene, bars about making money and getting out of the streets is such a major part of it that, without it being said, they can understand it. As long as they don't sell out completely and can still pump out the odd banger.

Dubstep on the other hand has never been about money. It's a scene purely about music. Purely about progression of a sound. About bass. I think that's why it's frustrating to see (for non producing people within the scene who spend their money going to raves and buying the tunes) when producers with the ability to push it forward in creative way, push it toward the mainstream for financial gain.

Now, I aint one to stop a motherucker from getting his cash, but when it's at the expense of quality music I enjoy hearing (and buying), I'm not so keen. Haha

Yeah, but I think in some ways it's less to do with selling out and more how often in can make you feel pushed out. Like, Skream looks like he's probably having a good time and making his money, but it's not necessarily what I want to hear from him or anyone. So you think, well I'll vote with my wallet (in future) or if you're at the club, by just walking away, but when everyone else is eating it up it's sad because if you're not a producer or DJ it's like, there's nothing you can do to stop the scene moving. I'm not saying that my opinions on where it should go are definitive or anything, it is just what I want, but I'm not going to claim I'm perfectly happy for dubstep to go down that route and still be into it, you know?

[ahier]

There was supposed to be a 'sometimes' at the beginning of my sentence.

Although who's to say people like Dizzee and Skream haven't always wanted to make these kinda tunes but wasn't accessible/acceptable in the world they came from, and are just now utilising the position they're now in to dabble in music they've always dreamt of being able to make?

I'm not sayin it's the case...but I think we often forget some people do actually like pop music.

Point but I don't think so. Last time I saw Skream, I just left due to the excessive show boating, effects and cheese of the tunes. We know how capable he is at producing, I can't see any other reason to release poorer tunes except to be commercially viable and to score some pennies. I don't blame him, just not how I'd have personally done it.

And people like pop music? I just thought they were too lazy.

yeah but i dont think its selling out in regards to skream, he has always been a fan of the minimal production-value wobble, always been vocal about his like of a wide variety of music including pop stuff, and the fact is that some of the songs he has made, despite not being my cup of tea, must have been pretty fun to write. case in point: i need air, whilst not really my cuppa at all, i can imagine writing big trancey riffs like that is a laugh because i do that sometimes when im bored and screwing around with production. and if i could cash in on it i would.

I think within grime it's accepted for guys to go make commercial tunes as long as they come back and make grime tunes. Within that scene, bars about making money and getting out of the streets is such a major part of it that, without it being said, they can understand it. As long as they don't sell out completely and can still pump out the odd banger.

Dubstep on the other hand has never been about money. It's a scene purely about music. Purely about progression of a sound. About bass. I think that's why it's frustrating to see (for non producing people within the scene who spend their money going to raves and buying the tunes) when producers with the ability to push it forward in creative way, push it toward the mainstream for financial gain.

Now, I aint one to stop a motherucker from getting his cash, but when it's at the expense of quality music I enjoy hearing (and buying), I'm not so keen. Haha

Yeah, but I think in some ways it's less to do with selling out and more how often in can make you feel pushed out. Like, Skream looks like he's probably having a good time and making his money, but it's not necessarily what I want to hear from him or anyone. So you think, well I'll vote with my wallet (in future) or if you're at the club, by just walking away, but when everyone else is eating it up it's sad because if you're not a producer or DJ it's like, there's nothing you can do to stop the scene moving. I'm not saying that my opinions on where it should go are definitive or anything, it is just what I want, but I'm not going to claim I'm perfectly happy for dubstep to go down that route and still be into it, you know?

and regarding this, whilst i agree with you, theres just not much you can do. dubstep has changed, for better or worse, and if you don't like that direction, theres unfortunately no point in getting bitter about it because thats not going to do anyone any favours. the way i see it, most people came to dubstep back a few years ago did so because they like finding new, interesting underground music, and new, interesting underground music is still out there in abundance; just because it isn't under the same genre umbrella as what you were last into doesnt mean its not there, just gotta explore.

(im sure you know this and im not saying anything new, just adding my 2p)

[Pada]

Everyone seems a bit precious over this scene, get over it - plenty of good music elsewhere

[capo ultra]

'that's right I sold out, I admit it.....I sold out every damn stadium in this country and you all bought the ticket'

[stappard]

Posted a similar question in the general discussion section, but I figured heads in this subforum would be more inclined to philosophize...

In as much seriousness as possible, do you think "selling out" and "being successful" are mutually exclusive in any context? One possible end could be compromising artistic vision to be more commercially viable. Another could simply be generating an amount of attention or/and revenue that is significant enough to tip the jealousy threshold of those who have yet not, or will never, accomplish anything on the same level. They say that making money doing something you love will always make people hate you.

Perhaps the fundamental question, though, is whether or not you think maximum creative potential and authenticity is mainly exclusive to artists living under difficult conditions, e.g. being oppressed or disenfranchised or otherwise compromised.

Here's a hypothetical example to chew on. Say you woke up tomorrow to find an email from a reputable film studio, offering you a contract to use several of your existing tracks, as well as several newly commissioned ones, for an upcoming wide-release film's official soundtrack. You would receive a six-figure commission fee plus considerable future royalties depending on the film's success and hard copy sales, not to mention international attention among those in the media industry and media coverage to go with it. Would you take it? Would you refuse it entirely? Or something in between? You'd have to consider that heads in the scene might accuse you of "selling out" whether or not you consciously decided to alter your artistic vision into commercial viability. You'd have to consider that heads may undermine your credibility within the community regardless of whether or not their accusations are justified or not. Or does it even matter?

My main motivation for asking this is from looking at the global culture drought, all the sleepers, the lost children, the unrelenting downward spiral, and wondering why people insist on "keeping it locked", when the power to recalibrate world culture lies with those creating it. Artists, after all, have the power to shake the world.

What do you think, though? This is an entirely open-ended question.

do i get tickets to the premiere? if yes, will they lend me a jacket and tie?