You know, at the end of the day we’re making MUSIC

[Ldizzy]

typical hip hop mindset..

dont worry im from that too...

but thats what i was referring to when i said u could listen to different styles... alhto i gave jack beats as an example... that was a fail for supporting my argument...

try some coltrane.

or do what u said, might work as well !!

[TieN]

I used to listen to a lot of jazz. I love how sporadic, creative, and expressive it is. That's actually why I used to love genres like jazzcore and mathcore, which are essentially subsets of grindcore with a lot of unique timing and similar elements to jazz (If you need a change-up from the norm, The Number Twelve Looks Like You is worth a listen. You'll either think it's utter garbage or absolute genius).

[Skyle]

I used to listen to a lot of jazz. I love how sporadic, creative, and expressive it is. That's actually why I used to love genres like jazzcore and mathcore, which are essentially subsets of grindcore with a lot of unique timing and similar elements to jazz (If you need a change-up from the norm, The Number Twelve Looks Like You is worth a listen. You'll either think it's utter garbage or absolute genius).

How about some Le Scrawl?

[ketamine]

I used to listen to a lot of jazz. I love how sporadic, creative, and expressive it is. That's actually why I used to love genres like jazzcore and mathcore, which are essentially subsets of grindcore with a lot of unique timing and similar elements to jazz (If you need a change-up from the norm, The Number Twelve Looks Like You is worth a listen. You'll either think it's utter garbage or absolute genius).

The fuck is mathcore??

[wub]

I used to listen to a lot of jazz. I love how sporadic, creative, and expressive it is. That's actually why I used to love genres like jazzcore and mathcore, which are essentially subsets of grindcore with a lot of unique timing and similar elements to jazz (If you need a change-up from the norm, The Number Twelve Looks Like You is worth a listen. You'll either think it's utter garbage or absolute genius).

The fuck is mathcore??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathcore

[hutyluty]

a song can be as well produced as anything but if it doesnt have that va va voom as thierry henry would say, then im not feelin it

[skimpi]

I agree that the technical side can swamp the workflow, but to make good music that stands up to other releases, you need to get technical. Searching presets and slapping audio files down isn't going to get you a nicely produced song that will compare to whats out there already, you need to use aux sends, split bass into various frequency and distort the highs, send to LFO's and all that technical stuff, especially so with Dubstep which is one of the 'harder' genres to do well. Saying all that, you are producing music so there is definitely something to what your saying... ;o)

well you dont NEED to do any of that haha, remember there's no rules in dubstep. i agree with what you said first, even though musical ideas may be good if you're using presets its most likley gonna sound shit. but then again you can make presets sound good, if you listen to some swindle, he uses some preset sounds, i even saw a kind of tutorial thing where he came up with a tune in 10 mins and its bangin, using presets! i think you need to have to have some knowledge of both to create a good track, awesome sound design with shit ideas and wicked composition with terrible mixing, are both shit. but if you have an alright understanding of both, you can make a good track.

but you definately dont need to have go into the depths of frequency splitting and stuff to make a good track.

someone mentioned about the short attention span, and people skipping through tracks, i just dont understand how people can be like that. my mate used to do it all the time, hed put a track on and then change it before it got to the end, and maybe skip to his favourite bit and then change after its done. i just dont get how people can not listen to a whole track. these days i dont think people do much album listening either, theres nothing better than putting on a cd and leaving it till the end. id rather listen to a whole artists tracks from start to finish instead of skipping off to different tracks after each one. nothin to do with this topic though haha.

[kaiori breathe]

What's with all the hate towards presets?

Most of those preset sounds are designed by guys who've worked in the sound design field for years or have been producers/musicians for years. They craft some really cool sounds. When I first started I hated presets, thought they sucked so hard, but really I just didn't know how to use them effectively and so sounds I considered 'naff' I was only really considering 'naff' because I was too inexperienced to see valid and potentially strong musical uses for them. The presets on massive/absynth/FM8/sytrus/z3ta are all fantastic and I use them regularly. If you can't get a few good tunes crafted out of the presets on one of those synths at least then you're doing something wrong.

[TieN]

I'll make the basic shell of a song with nexus presets (this is the entire reason I got the program), then switch them out with different sounds that I've hand-crafted. I'd prefer the satisfaction knowing that I created a song from scratch and that those sounds are unique to my production (Do you KNOW how hard it is to make a one oscillator square lead?!)

Love presets for workflow's sake, hate them in a final product (though I will admit to using one or two pads/pianos)

Just my $0.02

[Dystinkt]

with dubstep i tend not to listen to the whole tune, but if i listen to band, I listen the whole way through. I think for me, I look for emotionality in 'guitar music' so to speak, and for dubstep and EDM im just after vibes really. Nexus is a fucking beast btw. my first lecture/lesson at college the only note i took down was get nexus in capitals.

[SLASH]

Exactly were making music ...I'm not a fan of sound design. I don't want to build a guitar when I sit down to jam, i just want to pick it up and play. The preset can be whoevers but the melody, structure and mix is all mine. People have short attention spans and are being bombarded with media from all angles so you only have one shot to get their attention. You gotta give them a little of what they want then pull back.. then give them a little more and get them excited and then let that shit bang on them... yeah sounds like sex .lol but that;s the best way I can describe it. I try not to ever have more than 8- 16 bars without a change, I've been doing that for a while and people have commented and said "I love that you know exactly when to change up a beat" I think another thing about modern music is it's all about taking it to that next level since the tools are finally available.. compose in one DAW, Edit in another, Mix in another.. drop it into serato for more edits or whatever (same thing can be said for sound design I just choose not to take that path personally) and seriously music is getting better 2002-2010 was all about how much money you have and how flossy you were. That shit is finally gettin played out. It used to be cool to be a gangster, now it's wack. Hipsters are in over abundance, but that's waaaaayyyyy better than the everybody wants to be a gangster days

[TieN]

Awe so you mean my Juggalo friends and I can't go around and act real hard anymore, even though all we really do is paint our faces and drink Faygo? Disheartening.

[Jacob15728]

Yeah pretty much. Not very winning since we all know Skrillex has the filthiest sound. Once Skrillex popped up with Scary Monsters, there's really no point in focusing on filth anymore. He has it.

I take it you've never heard Shekel, Bratkilla, Tomba, Chrispy, etc.

[cloak and dagger]

Although I see where you're coming from and think that point of view is totally valid, I'm gonna have to be the one who kinda disagrees with you here.

I should probably first mention that I absolutely HATE all of those rhythm-less, melody-less tunes with just a bunch of random sounds every bar. But it's just a matter of taste, really.

One of the key points of music and what makes us like it is sound and noise on a completely pure, fundamental level. It's why people go nuts when that first note of sub-bass drops or when a pad comes into a tune before they've heard a note progression (if there is one). And I think it's totally valid to make music that doesn't adhere to a traditional song structure, whether it be long ambient pieces without melodies or an album that's just a collection of 1-minute beats or loops.

In the end, we respond to noise and rhythm just as much as we respond to melody. Melody and traditional song structures are just methods of communication when making music, but they're not the only ones (and in my opinion, aren't the most important ones).

Obviously, the same can be said about technical ability, and it's something that has to be considered on a case-by-case basis. But I don't think it's really fair to discount any approach to music, especially when our brains respond to nice sounds before we even realize we're listening to a song After all, we respond to nice sounds even when we're NOT listening to a song.

Like I said though, your point of view is totally valid, and I feel like there does need to be more songwriters and less producers in electronic music in general. Restore balance to the force and all that =)

[ChadDub]

Yeah pretty much. Not very winning since we all know Skrillex has the filthiest sound. Once Skrillex popped up with Scary Monsters, there's really no point in focusing on filth anymore. He has it.

I take it you've never heard Shekel, Bratkilla, Tomba, Chrispy, etc.

Yes I have, but they all suck.

[Jacob15728]

Yeah pretty much. Not very winning since we all know Skrillex has the filthiest sound. Once Skrillex popped up with Scary Monsters, there's really no point in focusing on filth anymore. He has it.

I take it you've never heard Shekel, Bratkilla, Tomba, Chrispy, etc.

Yes I have, but they all suck.

That's subjective. Lots of people enjoy their music. What can't really be argued is that many producers (Shekel especially) are making sounds that are much more modulated and distorted than what Skrillex is doing.

[3za]

Although I see where you're coming from and think that point of view is totally valid, I'm gonna have to be the one who kinda disagrees with you here.

I should probably first mention that I absolutely HATE all of those rhythm-less, melody-less tunes with just a bunch of random sounds every bar. But it's just a matter of taste, really.

One of the key points of music and what makes us like it is sound and noise on a completely pure, fundamental level. It's why people go nuts when that first note of sub-bass drops or when a pad comes into a tune before they've heard a note progression (if there is one). And I think it's totally valid to make music that doesn't adhere to a traditional song structure, whether it be long ambient pieces without melodies or an album that's just a collection of 1-minute beats or loops.

In the end, we respond to noise and rhythm just as much as we respond to melody. Melody and traditional song structures are just methods of communication when making music, but they're not the only ones (and in my opinion, aren't the most important ones).

Obviously, the same can be said about technical ability, and it's something that has to be considered on a case-by-case basis. But I don't think it's really fair to discount any approach to music, especially when our brains respond to nice sounds before we even realize we're listening to a song After all, we respond to nice sounds even when we're NOT listening to a song.

Like I said though, your point of view is totally valid, and I feel like there does need to be more songwriters and less producers in electronic music in general. Restore balance to the force and all that =)

[ChadDub]

Yeah pretty much. Not very winning since we all know Skrillex has the filthiest sound. Once Skrillex popped up with Scary Monsters, there's really no point in focusing on filth anymore. He has it.

I take it you've never heard Shekel, Bratkilla, Tomba, Chrispy, etc.

Yes I have, but they all suck.

That's subjective. Lots of people enjoy their music. What can't really be argued is that many producers (Shekel especially) are making sounds that are much more modulated and distorted than what Skrillex is doing.

Yeah but it's not as good sounding... Filth isn't just piling on distortion after distortion after bitcrusher after chorus after phaser after distortion after distortion, it's making it SOUND filthy.

[narcissus]

no no no no, to me "filthy" was always more of a feeling.. a subtle disgusting ooze in the back of one's brain... whatever....


wonderful thread, tho, y'all said it and i have little to add. except that this is why I'm into trance now.

[ChadDub]

I never felt the whole filth thing, I just always thought that that was just some crazy ass sound. I was never like OMG THAT IS SO DIRTY OMG NEED TO SHOWER EWWWW DAYUM SON OH MY GAWD!!!!!!!