Keeping Interest with Tunes and Switching it up

[fragments]

I have the same problem, interested to see what this thread throws up!

Like, falling, by distance. He uses the same riff over and over. No matter how many times I listen to that it never seems to get old.

Just thought it was worth responding to this specifically. Write an amazing fucking riff. Sorry, not trying to be an ass. But that is the easiest way to create a riff you and any given listener won't get tired of. It's also important for the elements around it to be well done in all respects, but there are a zillion pop tunes based around one catchy riff that listeners, even decades later, don't tire of.

Not saying I ever succeed at this, just saying.

[bayda]

i've found that percussion is the easiest way to spice things up. drop high hats for a bar, drop kick/snare for a bar, throw some dub style delay on a snare or high hat rhythm for a few seconds. if you're going for the style like kryptic minds and such then i've found the easiest cheat to fill out your sound is to throw all kinds of random samples in the background with all kinds of funky delays on them. if you pick samples at different frequencies (for example an low sample, a mid sample, and high sample), throw delays and reverbs on them, and arrange them cleverly you can totally fill out the whole spectrum of frequencies in the background of your song with different samples reverberating around! it's a great technique but it's easy to go too crazy with it so be careful!

p.s. this is the track i was listening to when i figured this out so give a listen and you'll see what i mean with the low mid and high samples working together

[StepMan]

You want to know how to mix it up?
Listen to every genre & study up!
It all comes with practice man!
My first track was awful, but it's about the experience & what I gained from it as the payoff

Yeah most def it is important to keep shit diverse, but at the same time we all know when a track is dope...
Certain tracks like Benga/Coki - Night have a kind of loop that you can listen to for ages without getting board, I mean just the drums on that track are too hektik.
I was listening to N-Type: Dubstep Allstars vol. 5, which I think is the greatest mix of all time and which got me into dubstep, the dubs on there were all styles but they were all dubby and the sound was so raw.

In making this 'raw' sound is it a problem with the extreme depth and understanding one has of the DAW and synths or the lack of it, that makes the sound raw?

[legend4ry]

Its over production what loses the "rawness".

Yes, make sure your sounds are of a high standard and your mix downs are without to much of a flaw but don't get anal with it.

Yeah, some times a sample will have a bit of hiss which isn't damaging to the track, often times a kick drum will have a weird tail or a un-sanitary mid end; using these types of sounds (which you will find in things like breaks and samples off vinyl) help create rawness, character, depth.. Which ever word you like to use for that type of sound.


I spent months and months when I first started out to "clean up" all my samples, taking out all of the character of them and my tracks sounded clinical and boring because there wasn't anything in there to bring it to life - they sounded unfinished and like the bare bones of a track.


Theres a reason 60s rock music sounds so perfect; because it wasn't perfect at all.. There was flaws in the sound quality, recording and often times they just "did the best with what they had" that is something which has been lost with the digital era, as producers who use a DAW we have to consciously think about not making our music sound like its been made in a pale white room with no dust in it.

Dust is character, one might say haha!

[SunkLo]

Definitely agree with ledge here on the dust factor. Any synthesized sounds need to have some sort of character added. Slight bit-crushing, saturation, fast delay lines with feedback and filtering tucked quietly underneath... all kinds of crazy sound design that isn't prominent but adds up to character in the end.

In terms of arrangement, you really need to spend a lot of time on each detail. Solo each instrument and make note of when you get bored of it. Imagine if you were actually playing that part live. Just because it's a background tambourine or something doesn't mean it can't have any variation. Play through paying attention to one part at a time and listen to how it affects and is affected by other aspects. To have a cohesive track all the parts need to be acting in tandem. For instance that imaginary tambourine player will be taking cues from the other drums and melodic instruments. This is why a live band jamming will sound more interesting than something sequenced. Steal rhythmic and melodic motifs from other parts and adapt them accordingly.

Automation is very important, as has already been stated. Subtle things like eq movement or effects changes will all add up to make your parts more dynamic and less sterile. Also don't discount volume as a powerful tool. Minute fades can direct the listener's attention and affect the energy flow, helping to contribute to a sense of direction and momentum.

Essentially, details.
Details in sound design, processing, arrangement, mixing, etc.

The more you practice the better you'll get at it. One of the tenets of being a great producer is making the complicated sound simple and making the difficult look easy. Minimalist tracks have a lot of detail going on below the surface that isn't readily apparent. What enables a section to loop endlessly without you tiring of it is character and careful arrangement. Aka, having a badass riff.


All this ties into the other subject brought up about how long it takes to finish a track. Tweaking all these details and injecting texture into every aspect takes a long time and lots of experimentation. At the same time, many people will tell you the best tracks are the ones that flow out of you quickly. With experience you will develop the intuition and workflow to be able to maximize the amount of writing done in the initial window of inspiration, and then go back later to work on the polish. You have to get the foundation of your house built before you start picking out shutters and trim.

I take ages to finish tracks. The one I'm currently writing has been in the works for months. Only people who have heard it are Legendary and Nowaysj (who has seemingly disappeared) and that was a couple months ago. It's in the detailing and arrangement stage right now and I still can't quite see the end of the tunnel. There's always more to be added and tweaked; as long as there's imperfection to be heard there's more to be done. "A painting is never finished." I don't mean trying to tweak it to the point of castration. To the contrary; a lot of the effort expended is actually adding in imperfection and life. My point is you need to become obsessive about the details of your work. It'll all pay off in the end when you can listen to it a thousand times and never get bored.