Making music people don't understand...

[Hircine]

i don't consider silence a song.

Do you consider white a colour?

Of course. But i don't consider an empty canvas a painting, a blank piece of paper a story or a blank dvd a movie. Making a 'song' out of nothing turns it into exactly that - nothing.

That's because we were taught since childhood to live with much. We always need more information, more friends, more money, more equipment, more comfort until who we are is buried under it all. When we lose it all, we are left with nothing. And then nothing becomes something, the only thing we have and the only thing that can't be taken from us. A song of silence is nothing more than a song at its primal and brute state.

[Hircine]

i don't consider silence a song.

Do you consider white a colour?

Of course. But i don't consider an empty canvas a painting, a blank piece of paper a story or a blank dvd a movie. Making a 'song' out of nothing turns it into exactly that - nothing.

But white is not a colour - it is the abscence of any colour. So by considering white a colour, you must also consider silence a song, such as it is the abscence of sound.

Actually, you are wrong Wub. White is the sum of the whole spectrum of light. Black is the absence of colour. A surface that reflects no light is black.

[wub]

i don't consider silence a song.

Do you consider white a colour?

Of course. But i don't consider an empty canvas a painting, a blank piece of paper a story or a blank dvd a movie. Making a 'song' out of nothing turns it into exactly that - nothing.

But white is not a colour - it is the abscence of any colour. So by considering white a colour, you must also consider silence a song, such as it is the abscence of sound.

Actually, you are wrong Wub. White is the sum of the whole spectrum of light. Black is the absence of colour. A surface that reflects no light is black.

My bad - I always get those mixed up.

[VirtualMark]

But white is not a colour - it is the abscence of any colour. So by considering white a colour, you must also consider silence a song, such as it is the abscence of sound.

White is both the absence of colour in subtractive mixing, and it's all colours at once with additive mixing. Anyhow, you're statement isn't true, considering white a colour would mean that i have to consider silence a sound, not a song. A better question would be do i consider a canvas painted white a painting? Not really, but at least there's actually paint there. With silence, there is nothing. More like a blank canvass.

Silence has zero amplitude and no frequency or timbre. Seeing as those are the main things that make up a sound, i wouldn't say you could class silence as one.

[ketamine]

But white is not a colour - it is the abscence of any colour. So by considering white a colour, you must also consider silence a song, such as it is the abscence of sound.

White is both the absence of colour in subtractive mixing, and it's all colours at once with additive mixing. Anyhow, you're statement isn't true, considering white a colour would mean that i have to consider silence a sound, not a song. A better question would be do i consider a canvas painted white a painting? Not really, but at least there's actually paint there. With silence, there is nothing. More like a blank canvass.

Silence has zero amplitude and no frequency or timbre. Seeing as those are the main things that make up a sound, i wouldn't say you could class silence as one.

You should be a lawyer. You've won this one.

[alphacat]

Silence has zero amplitude and no frequency or timbre. Seeing as those are the main things that make up a sound, i wouldn't say you could class silence as one.

Sound is a continuum, and further is meaningless without silence. Silence is as much a part of the continuum of sound (of which music is, for most, an extremely narrow subset... but doesn't have to be.) You cannot define amplitude or frequency or timbre without referring to the absence thereof.

Essential reading right here: this book changed my life. Literally. Completely destroyed and refashioned my ideas about what is and isn't music:

http://www.amazon.com/Silence-John-Cage ... 761&sr=8-3

[VirtualMark]

A song of silence is nothing more than a song at its primal and brute state.

mu·sic/ˈmyo͞ozik/
Noun:

1. The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.

Sorry to get the dictionary out, but that statement is silly.

Silence is just that - silence. No instruments, no vocals, nothing. Its certainly something, which is why we have a word for it. But it cannot be classed as a song or piece of music, anymore than the empty vacuum of space can be classed as a model t ford or a cup of tea.

[Hircine]

A song of silence is nothing more than a song at its primal and brute state.

mu·sic/ˈmyo͞ozik/
Noun:

1. The art or science of combining vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.

Sorry to get the dictionary out, but that statement is silly.

Silence is just that - silence. No instruments, no vocals, nothing. Its certainly something, which is why we have a word for it. But it cannot be classed as a song or piece of music, anymore than the empty vacuum of space can be classed as a model t ford or a cup of tea.

So you imply that silence isn't a piece of music, what with the silence between parts that builds up so well tension in some pieces of classic music? Isn't it as important to the song as a specific chord?

[Praya]

I'm tired of dance music, these days i just make silence, i'm sure you've all heard my songs, im getting pretty well known. I've got a night on next week in London you should all come down, a five hour set of nothing.

[therapist]

I'm tired of dance music, these days i just make silence, i'm sure you've all heard my songs, im getting pretty well known. I've got a night on next week in London you should all come down, a five hour set of nothing.

That's some fat old silence in your signature there, by the way. Good work. I like my silence a bit quieter usually but it's a cool track.

[VirtualMark]

So you imply that silence isn't a piece of music, what with the silence between parts that builds up so well tension in some pieces of classic music? Isn't it as important to the song as a specific chord?

I never said silence doesn't have a place in a song, of course it has its uses - its one of the many tools we can use. A 5 minute piece of silence however is just an empty space, its nothing.

Anyhow, i don't feel i should have to defend this, its basic common sense. How about you explain how you can have a song with no sounds? And is anyone here actually considering making such a song? Sending it to a label or trying to make a career out of it? Here we are in an electronic music production forum, and we're arguing whether a song should have any sounds in it or not.

[VirtualMark]

I'm tired of dance music, these days i just make silence, i'm sure you've all heard my songs, im getting pretty well known. I've got a night on next week in London you should all come down, a five hour set of nothing.

That's some fat old silence in your signature there, by the way. Good work. I like my silence a bit quieter usually but it's a cool track.

Awesome tune - how did you make the sound at 1:50? Great skills. I think its a bit long tho, i've been listening for 2 hours and haven't found the end yet.

[ketamine]

[topmo3]

i don't consider silence a song.

Do you consider white a colour?

Of course. But i don't consider an empty canvas a painting, a blank piece of paper a story or a blank dvd a movie. Making a 'song' out of nothing turns it into exactly that - nothing.

But white is not a colour - it is the abscence of any colour. So by considering white a colour, you must also consider silence a song, such as it is the abscence of sound.

but how can you say white isn't a colour? when you buy a pack of crayons or colouring pencils there's usually a white one included. yes we usually paint/draw/etc on white paper or canvas and call it blank but that's just the way we roll nowadays, in the ancient times blank paper or papyrus or whatever was yellowish or sandy. i'm kinda rambling here but the point is unless it says so in some encyclopedia or the oxford dictionary i refuse to believe that and still consider both white and black are colours.

edit: looks like there was another page and i'm flogging a dead horse. but i still stand by it

[e-motion]

For everyone making silencestep, I'm the best mastering engineer on the market, so contact me if you have the money to pay me.


Ontopic: For the OP, consider the target of your music. It's useless to show your music to people outside your target. This is only a problem if you go comercial, but reading what you said I think it's not your objective.

[wub]

If the abscence of colour can be called art, then the abscence of sound can be called music. Again, all subjective.


Seriously considering merging this with the noise thread, feels like we're having the same discussion all over again

[atticuh]

Well it generally happens because the person listening doesn't "get" what you're trying to do... For instance, in the dubstep/garage/crackle world, we "understand" static, hiss, drop outs, lowpassed muffled noises, keys jingling, etc... & when you make that kind of tune, people can still judge whether its good or bad at being "crackly"... but because they know what you're doing, they don't say it sucks just because its all sonically lo-fi...

This is the kind of music I make. It is what it is.

I hate when a person who hears you "make music" and then want to hear it, and then scrunch their face up because its all weird and they say it sucks--and you know, that within your genre, it does not suck. But they don't "get" what you were trying to do.

Worse is people who find your music randomly probably searching for something else, and then say disparaging comments about it, when its obvious they weren't even looking for that type of sound.

Mainly because music is so personal. We are all learning & growing, and so I don't care when somebody *within* my music tastes gives me critizism, but it hurts and irritates me to no end when some idiot who only listens to radio pop & never even heard of underground artists like Emika, Burial, James Blake, and god forbid, somebody like Mr Oizo...

And that's another subject... Suppose your song sounds exactly the way it does, ON PURPOSE?
How can artists like Squarepusher & Mr Oizo get away with basically random noises threwn together, but when a no-name does it, it "Sucks. You need to keep trying"...

No. Maybe the tune is random & glitchy & stupid on purpose you dip sh*t.

/Rant.

Its alright, bro. Keep doing what you're doing and one day, when MTV decides your tastes are "cool", they'll ruin what you created too! AND GIVE YOU A GRAMMY FOR IT. Its the trendy way.

[Praya]

That's some fat old silence in your signature there, by the way. Good work. I like my silence a bit quieter usually but it's a cool track.

Thanks man, that's an old one i made before i changed genre, might change back though soon, gettin a bit jaded with all this silence, too many clones popping up everywhere, shit's getting saturated.

Awesome tune - how did you make the sound at 1:50?

Its all about turning your DAW off at just the right time.
If you like those kinda sounds, check out my new sample pack, 'Invisible Beats vol.3'


@Ketamine
Do those same people tell you to check out tunes, that you think are whack?
If so then you probably don't want those people liking your music.

[nowaysj]

Silence doesn't exist, I thought that had been established, you assholes.

And OP, NEWSFLASH: People are stupid, you too, get over it already.

[Alistairr]

but what happens if my ipod is white yet my painting is silent...