Making synths wider with panning.

[therapist]

What you wanna do is pan left and right [maybe hard left/right or maybe just a little, see what works]...

Then displace on half by taking it back or forward a milisecond or two.

Sounds dope, just been listening to a few Datsik tunes where he does that on the bassline.

Use a really short stereo (sample delay in logic, don't know the equivalents) delay? Seems a lot easier. This would cause fairly big issues in bass when knocked to mono though, maybe.

how many samples do you usually delay it by? i know samples are apparently really short which makes the sample delay really good for this trick.

i've been getting into using this trick in logic as well as panning but i just find it a huge pain in the arse to first split the frequencies to leave 100-350hz alone. then duplicate the mids and highs and pan them.

A bus with low/mid cut > short sample delay / imager > stereo delay/reverb etc. can achieve something similar and you can just whack whichever instruments you like through it rather than do it track for track. Or even a bus each for left and right with some ambient effects can get some interesting results.

I can't really remember the science re- sample delay, but enough to give some width, not so much that the sound becomes two distinct sounds in each speaker. I don't imagine that's helpful but there you go.

yeah ill give it a go doing it that method. but the method i was talking about thats a pain in the arse is panning each bass hard L and R but still having the lows just mono. there a better method than splitting frequencies then cuplicating the mids and highs and panning them?

That's what I was getting at. Sending some of the bass (or whatever) on a send to a filter before doing your panning/effects is effectively the same as duplicating/processing after frequency splitting. The low end stays central, and you can do whatever you want to the top end.

[howiegroove]

My way of processing sounds to make them wider is this:

I use Live, so I will group the track and create a few chains. On one I will low pass one and use a Utility plug to make it 100% mono. Over 120 hz to 1200 hz i will keep it a stereo but add some effects to that chain only. Then on the other chain of 1200 up, I will add some chorus, flanger, phaser, or anything else that will add width to a sound. There are other things you can do, but like you mentioned, you can duplicate the chain again twice and pan them. I wouldn't do a 100% panning but 25-50% should be plenty. To avoid phasing issues, you can delay the signal slightly, or you can change the signal by saturating the sound a touch. As long as the waveform is different, you shouldn't run into phasing issues.

[OfficialDAPT]

http://www.fluxhome.com/products/freewares/stereotool this is what you wanna be looking at

thanks deadly, ill have a look into that stereo tool.

If the tracks are identical, duplicating and panning doesn't actually do anything does it?

oh. hahaha.

The easier way is switch to Ableton where intrument racks and busses are plentiful.

im on Ableton but recently just switched so im still getting used to using instrument racks and stuff.
ive also been using Utility for widening things which seems to be a good tool to create space within a mix.

When you widen with the utility, you should have 2 chains. One dry and on widened with it. That allows more stereo width without changing too much of the core sound.

[pesky]

http://www.fluxhome.com/products/freewares/stereotool this is what you wanna be looking at

thanks deadly, ill have a look into that stereo tool.

If the tracks are identical, duplicating and panning doesn't actually do anything does it?

oh. hahaha.

The easier way is switch to Ableton where intrument racks and busses are plentiful.

im on Ableton but recently just switched so im still getting used to using instrument racks and stuff.
ive also been using Utility for widening things which seems to be a good tool to create space within a mix.

When you widen with the utility, you should have 2 chains. One dry and on widened with it. That allows more stereo width without changing too much of the core sound.

make two channels? one with no utility and one with? lol. im abit lost...

[baseband]

If the tracks are identical, duplicating and panning doesn't actually do anything does it?

oh. hahaha.

The easier way is switch to Ableton where intrument racks and busses are plentiful.

switching to ableton costs a lot of money, which is a waste if you have already spent a lot of money on another daw. the easier way is to learn how to do it properly in whatever software/equipment you use

[pesky]

If the tracks are identical, duplicating and panning doesn't actually do anything does it?

oh. hahaha.

The easier way is switch to Ableton where intrument racks and busses are plentiful.

switching to ableton costs a lot of money, which is a waste if you have already spent a lot of money on another daw. the easier way is to learn how to do it properly in whatever software/equipment you use

i use ableton now but only just switched? so still kinda dipping my toes in the ableton waters.

[apathesis]

My way of processing sounds to make them wider is this:

I use Live, so I will group the track and create a few chains. On one I will low pass one and use a Utility plug to make it 100% mono. Over 120 hz to 1200 hz i will keep it a stereo but add some effects to that chain only. Then on the other chain of 1200 up, I will add some chorus, flanger, phaser, or anything else that will add width to a sound. There are other things you can do, but like you mentioned, you can duplicate the chain again twice and pan them. I wouldn't do a 100% panning but 25-50% should be plenty. To avoid phasing issues, you can delay the signal slightly, or you can change the signal by saturating the sound a touch. As long as the waveform is different, you shouldn't run into phasing issues.

this is good advice

[hhans]

If you're using Massive, go to the Voicing tab and change the unisono to 2+ and then move the Pan Position slider far left or right. That'll make it suuuuper wide. Additionally, you can use the dimension expander with the Dry/Wet at about 10 o'clock and Size at about 7.

[e-motion]

If the tracks are identical, duplicating and panning doesn't actually do anything does it?

Not always. If you duplicate a synth that doesn't have OSC retrigger, both synths will have different phases, so they'll be different and it will sound wide .

[bigdaveo11]

so basically as long as the waveforms/sounds are different then phasing will be minimized/wont occur at all? Sry n00b here always get confused on this topic.

[hhans]

so basically as long as the waveforms/sounds are different then phasing will be minimized/wont occur at all? Sry n00b here always get confused on this topic.

Yep. Detuning is another good option as well but it's not always the desired effect.

[bigdaveo11]

nice, thanks!

[Majin]

Because of the Haas effect, delaying one side will make your ear perceive the source of the sound to be on the earlier side, which doesn't sound to me like a big stereo bass, just sounds like it's on one side even though its technically coming from both speakers. Thing I like the most which was already posted in this thread is to change the frequency content of either side rather than delaying it.

[howiegroove]

If the tracks are identical, duplicating and panning doesn't actually do anything does it?

oh. hahaha.

The easier way is switch to Ableton where intrument racks and busses are plentiful.

im on Ableton but recently just switched so im still getting used to using instrument racks and stuff.
ive also been using Utility for widening things which seems to be a good tool to create space within a mix.

When you widen with the utility, you should have 2 chains. One dry and on widened with it. That allows more stereo width without changing too much of the core sound.

make two channels? one with no utility and one with? lol. im abit lost...[/quote]


Its basically the same thing as parallel processing. Ableton lets you do parallel processing without having to utilize sends & returns if you don't want to. The beauty of it is that in other DAWs, you would literally have to duplicate your channel 10 times(possible exaggeration) to get a nice thick sound you were seeking. In Live however, all you have to do is create chains. WAYYYYY tidier. From my earlier post, I think I described 6 total chains. More is not uncommon to achieve the sound you want. Also remember, this isn't 1984. Unless you're making a Stevie Wonder retro album, I typically don't just dial up a patch on a Juno and run with it. Sounds are getting more and more complex and computers are getting more and more powerful.

[pesky]

Its basically the same thing as parallel processing. Ableton lets you do parallel processing without having to utilize sends & returns if you don't want to. The beauty of it is that in other DAWs, you would literally have to duplicate your channel 10 times(possible exaggeration) to get a nice thick sound you were seeking. In Live however, all you have to do is create chains. WAYYYYY tidier. From my earlier post, I think I described 6 total chains. More is not uncommon to achieve the sound you want. Also remember, this isn't 1984. Unless you're making a Stevie Wonder retro album, I typically don't just dial up a patch on a Juno and run with it. Sounds are getting more and more complex and computers are getting more and more powerful.

im gonna go away and look at some more information on chains within ableton me thinks! then come back to your posts and try put it into practice!
thank you!

[howiegroove]

Of course!

[pesky]

How low down the frequency spectrum can you try to widen before you start running into issues?

[howiegroove]

There is no hard or fast rule however I keep my bass frequencies mono. I only do heavier widening to my sounds on their frequencies over 1200hz. Everything over 200hz for me is stereo though. I just don't purposefully widen sounds below 1200

[Jas0n]

How low down the frequency spectrum can you try to widen before you start running into issues?

First thought is, the closer it is to your sub, the more centered you want it.