Auto attack release compressor

[SunkLo]

Not me. Level dependent A/R compressors I guess? Look up something with a vari-mu design.

[test_recordings]

There's mention of how they do what they do though , and I can just find out myself. You think transformers , vales etc aren't electronics?

By this point in this thread, does anybody know what it is you are asking, or what you want to know?

I asked in OP and it got derailed by people not knowing what it is it seems, I never said anything else

Just to repeat AGAIN: any vst compressor with automatic attack and release

[nowaysj]

Automatically doing what though? What are you trying to do? A compressor can be used to do several different things.

Are you just trying to control volume?

[Electric_Head]

Automatically doing what though? What are you trying to do? A compressor can be used to do several different things.

Are you just trying to control volume?

Notice the Auto Release button?
That is what he means.

[nowaysj]

Yeah, I know a few comps with auto release. WHAT OF IT?

[test_recordings]

Okay here's an explanation I found, I'm just going to copy and paste and you can read the rest of it if you're interested

Then there are the "Attack" and "Release" controls. So what do these do?

If you've followed this explanation so far, you'll realise that a compressor is a bit like having a smart guy hanging onto a volume control and adjusting it by hand according to the music. But how quickly can this "person" respond? Well, the "Attack" control, adjusts how quickly this "person" is, at turning down the volume when things get too loud. The "Release" control is how quickly that same "person" can turn the volume back up again when things have calmed down.

But why would you want to adjust this? Surely you would want it to be instantaneous? (after all, it *is* supposed to by an automatic system...)

It turns out that in practice, in many situations, you don't want the volume to be "instantly" cranked down the moment things get too loud. Under certain conditions you can really *hear* the volume being pulled down, and this is very undesireable. Instead, it *sometimes* sounds better if the "person" is a bit sloppy and slow at yanking the volume down. The "Attack" control affects this sloppyness.

What about the "Release" control? Well, in a similar way, if the compressor is too fast at turning the volume control back up again, you can hear it working (the audible effect is known as "pumping"). It just sounds "artificial". So the "Release" control adjusts the speed at which the compressor "recovers" after yanking down the volume. The exact speed which sounds "correct" depends on the music, so that's why you can adjust it by hand. The examples following in a moment give some suggested settings, but by all means experiment in order to find the most "natural" sounding setting.

And that leads us to another control. It is a switch, and it is sometimes marked "Automatic" and sometimes marked "Peak/RMS". So what does this switch do?

Well, as I mentioned before, the "Attack" and "Release" settings really depend on the music you are using the compressor on. But music continually changes. What the "Automatic" or "Peak/RMS" switch does, is to switch on an automatic setting that attempts to "listen" to the music and continually set the correct "Attack" and "Release" settings for you. Of course it doesn't always do the best job, and that is why you also have manual control if you want it. It is important to realise that with this switch turned on, the "Attack" and "Release" controls are disabled and will do nothing. Some compressors (unfortunately) don't have "Attack" and "Release" controls at all, and are either set to preset values, or permanently set to RMS (automatic).

Original article: http://gonzoft.tripod.com/articles/a4/a4.htm

It's not uncommon, you might want to get acquainted as you might like it

[Electric_Head]

Yeah, I know a few comps with auto release. WHAT OF IT?

Don't give me attitude.
You clearly had no idea what he was talking about

[nowaysj]

The only thing here that I have no idea of, is what he is trying to do. At this point in the thread though, I'm in it just for sport.

I've enjoyed TR through the years over in the snh, so have been playing along, but the mf is being extremely obtuse here. He has been asked several times what he is trying to achieve, and there has been no reply forthcoming.

I've asked several times because depending on what he is trying to do, there may be more appropriate tools.

FFS

[test_recordings]

The only thing here that I have no idea of, is what he is trying to do. At this point in the thread though, I'm in it just for sport.

I've enjoyed TR through the years over in the snh, so have been playing along, but the mf is being extremely obtuse here. He has been asked several times what he is trying to achieve, and there has been no reply forthcoming.

I've asked several times because depending on what he is trying to do, there may be more appropriate tools.

FFS

Chill chill chill I was being specific in OP for those that know what automatic attack and release is, didn't consider that it's not as widely known as I thought. As I said, I need it to pair a wide variety of sample envelopes to get transparent compression. Other people suggested different techniques but it gets annoying tbh.

Let's keep this on OP and save the discussion of different compression uses, techniques etc for the existing threads

[nowaysj]

Imo people are suggesting a variety of tools and techniques because we don't know what you are trying to do, and there are often several ways to achieve a similar result.

But in order to help you find the right tool or technique, we need to know what your desired result is. You seem to be fixated on compressors as a tool class, but there are other tools that will manage automatic volume control without the need for attack and release settings.

In terms of the tenor of this thread, I've seen people trying to expand your understanding of volume and dynamics control through a discussion of a variety of techniques and tools, and I've seen you be fairly dismissive of their good-natured and good-humored attempts. Little down.

I apologize for my distractions in this thread. I leave you to the thread and your pursuit of an auto-attack compressor.

[test_recordings]

lol I was asking for it specifically , I don't not appreciate the other help I'm just not asking for it in that way. You're not distracting, I'm just trying to keep on OP

[SunkLo]

RMS != automatic A/R
I dunno what that guy's on about.

There's plenty of auto release compressors because that actually makes sense. You want it to let go before the threshold is triggered again. So the plugin can look at how often the threshold is triggered and set the release accordingly.

But auto attack? I don't see how that'd be helpful at all. You could measure the previous transient and then... what? How does the compressor know how snappy you want it? There's no objective measure of what an attack time should be like there is with release. There is level dependent attack which I previously mentioned but that doesn't seem to be what you want.

I hope you're not basing this whole search on that one Angelfire-ass article from '99.

[mks]

I have a Symetrix 525 hardware compressor that has no attack or release knobs, just threshold, ratio, gain and gate threshold knobs.

I have had good results with it on electric bass and snares. It all really depends on what you are running through it, and it is not always the best tool for the job.

Sorry Test Recordings, I cannot recommend a VST like this at the moment.

[SunkLo]

LA2A is a classic compressor with minimal controls. Tons of emulations of it.

[mks]

I forgot, there is one VST that I would recommend. I'm not at my DAW right now, so I was trying to remember off the top of my head.

The one I have used is the Stillwell Audio Major Tom. Check it out!

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/s ... ompressor/

[SunkLo]

NI has a DBX160 emu as well.

[mks]

Since we are on the subject, I have just downloaded this compressor from Solid State Logic. It's an emulation of the talkback compressor used on Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel records in the '80's.

LMC-1 Plug-In - Available FREE for PC and MAC*

Click HERE to download your FREE LMC-1 Plug-in now (Registration required)

Every now and again a piece of audio equipment comes along that defines the sound of an era. Back in 1979 Solid State Logic gave birth to a legendary recording console. The SSL SL 4000E Master Studio System forever changed how records would be recorded and mixed, heralding a new age in popular music. In less than three years, every major studio worldwide featured at a least one room with an SSL “E” Series console.

The SSL Listen Mic Compressor was the secret weapon in many producers sonic arsenal of recording techniques. Originally designed to prevent overloading the return feed from a studio communications mic, its fixed attack and release curves were eminently suitable for use on ambient drums mics. Of course, we’d like to take all the credit for this great sound, but as usual, it was the creativity of SSL users that led to the idea.

Long-time SSL user Hugh Padgham was one of the first to capture this new drum sound on tape,while working with Steve Lilywhite on Peter Gabriel’s ‘Intruder’, he told Mix magazine:* "On a normal console, you have a button to press to talk to the musicians in the headphones, but you did not have a button to press for us to listen to the musicians. To do that, you'd plug a microphone into a spare channel on the desk and listen to your musicians through that. But the SSL had a reverse talkback button and there was a microphone hanging up in the studio already, a dedicated input into the reverse mic input on the console. And on this microphone, they had the most unbelievably heavy compressor, so you could hear somebody who was over in the corner.

"One day, Phil (Collins) was playing the drums,” Hugh recalls, “and I had the reverse talkback on because he was speaking, and then he started playing the drums. The most unbelievable sound came out because of the heavy compressor. I said, 'My God, this is the most amazing sound! Steve, listen to this.' But the way the reverse talkback was setup, you couldn't record it. So I had the desk modified that night. I got one of the maintenance guys to take the desk apart and get a split output of this compressor and feed it into a patch point on the jack field so I could then patch it into a channel on the board. From there, we were able to route that to the tape recorder."

Now you can experience the Listen Mic Compressor within the comfort of your own workstation software and see what sounds it’ll lead you to create. If you discover something really great – like a radical new distorted oboe sound then be sure to let us know.

Read the full Mix article at - mixonline.com/mag/audio_phil_collins_air/

* Macintosh computer with PowerPC G4 or faster processor (not Intel Mac)

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/LMC-1/index.asp

[test_recordings]

RMS != automatic A/R
I dunno what that guy's on about.

There's plenty of auto release compressors because that actually makes sense. You want it to let go before the threshold is triggered again. So the plugin can look at how often the threshold is triggered and set the release accordingly.

But auto attack? I don't see how that'd be helpful at all. You could measure the previous transient and then... what? How does the compressor know how snappy you want it? There's no objective measure of what an attack time should be like there is with release. There is level dependent attack which I previously mentioned but that doesn't seem to be what you want.

I hope you're not basing this whole search on that one Angelfire-ass article from '99.

Auto attack and release adjusts the attack and release time based on how fast they happen. It means the compressor calculates when to set the times, or in analogue hardware, just reacts electronically in some way.

Here's a relink of the KVR article I posted on page 1: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5300182. Like I said before, it's not uncommon, but not common with free stuff, hence why some people may not know what it is.

I forgot, there is one VST that I would recommend. I'm not at my DAW right now, so I was trying to remember off the top of my head.

The one I have used is the Stillwell Audio Major Tom. Check it out!

http://www.stillwellaudio.com/plugins/s ... ompressor/

Yeah saw that, costs $ though. It's got the principle right though. I wonder if I could design my own vst

NI has a DBX160 emu as well.

That sounds promising.

LA2A is a classic compressor with minimal controls. Tons of emulations of it.

The original has a fixed 10 milisec attack time though, won't be useful for everything but thanks for the tip. http://www.uaudio.com/hardware/compressors/la-2a.html

[SunkLo]

RMS != automatic A/R
I dunno what that guy's on about.

There's plenty of auto release compressors because that actually makes sense. You want it to let go before the threshold is triggered again. So the plugin can look at how often the threshold is triggered and set the release accordingly.

But auto attack? I don't see how that'd be helpful at all. You could measure the previous transient and then... what? How does the compressor know how snappy you want it? There's no objective measure of what an attack time should be like there is with release. There is level dependent attack which I previously mentioned but that doesn't seem to be what you want.

I hope you're not basing this whole search on that one Angelfire-ass article from '99.

Auto attack and release adjusts the attack and release time based on how fast they happen. It means the compressor calculates when to set the times, or in analogue hardware, just reacts electronically in some way.

Here's a relink of the KVR article I posted on page 1: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5300182. Like I said before, it's not uncommon, but not common with free stuff, hence why some people may not know what it is.

Did you read my post that you quoted there? Namely the part about there being no objective measure of suitable attack time, and the bit about level dependent attack? That KVR thread isn't talking about compressors that magically choose an attack time for you. It's about compressors with attack times linked to program level, like I've been hinting at.

You still haven't really explained what it is you're trying to achieve. Sounds like you just want a compressor to make mix decisions for you, which unfortunately doesn't exist. And if it did, it'd probably sound like ass in 99.999% of scenarios. Even the program dependent compressors have an attack time, whether it's exposed to the user or not. It just also gets scaled by volume.

Auto-release does exist because it's something that can be programmatically calculated by a computer. Your computer can't make aesthetic choices for you though. Even when you insert a compressor with a fixed or program dependent attack, whether you're aware of it or not, you're the one deciding on the attack not the plugin.

[test_recordings]

It's close to vari-mu, but more for the speed of the application of the compression. I just read up on vari-mu on these websites if you want to check if we're talking about the same thing: http://recording.org/diy-pro-audio-foru ... ssors.html, https://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/20 ... nd-beyond/.
Yes I know there's no objective way of measuring attack time but an automatic attack sets the attack proportional to the speed of the increasing signal therefore not measuring it as such. Think of it as being the reverse of automatic release? The speed of attack, in analogue electronics, at least, is adjustable as to how much the incoming signal triggers the attack (I assume digital would calculate the envelope's volume change prior to the threshold, even better if it continuously did so to further nuance the application time after that).

Basically, as the signal rises, the compression is applied. A fast attack gets the compression applied faster, a slower one gets the compression applied slower. The attack is proportional to the speed of the rise in level. Vari-mu is how the signal level proportionally affects the compression ratio, differentiating it from automatic attack (notice how vari-mu comps generally have a manual attack setting). This attack time is still technically controllable in the proportional ratio that is used to calculate the time compared to the speed. It's a completely relational interaction after all. You mentioned that with program-dependent compressors, they're scaled by volume yes but on it's envelope speed. I prefer it that way because it preserves the original envelope better.

Vari-mu is useful though, as would be opto/LED comps. A lot of other compressors with a manual attack control use a set compression curve (or no curve in VCAs) that is applied at the attack time setting so what annoys me is having to find a curve that reflects the envelope of the sample. For example, a sharp smacked snare is going to need a different curve from a fingered electric bass.

The computer doesn't make complete aesthetic choices in as much as it just does what it does, I'm still deciding whether it's good or not. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, anyway. It's just that sound doesn't rise in ways that match the standard 10milisec increments on a manual attack setting hence this thread.