WW2 trauma...does it persist transgenerationally?

[NilsFG]

Belgium here. In my personal life, what I have noticed: we still make jokes about the Germans sometimes. And that's about it. Not much people I know, including friends, parents, family and other elder people I know, really care about WW2 or the holocaust. General consensus round my parts is "get over it", not as in that we should forget about it, we should remember it, but, you know, get over it. Sure it still influences us a lot; it's a very significant part of our history. But I think that the "trauma" is dying out really here.

[alphacat]

Yes, definitely. My grandpa was a WWII vet.

[NilsFG]

Yes, definitely. My grandpa was a WWII vet.

Care to explain how that has affected your personal life or given you a trauma of some sorts? Genuinely interested.

Both my grandfathers weren't vets. But my grandparents at my mother's side did keep English pilots in the attic though, as did a lot of other people. Was quite a brave thing to do because my town was occupied by quite a lot of Germans and they had set up quite a camp in the castle. My grandfather was a butcher's boy so he needed to bring fresh meat to the Germans in the castle in my town every few days. Germans cut his hair because they thought it was too long. Great-grandfather slapped the shit out of him afterwards because he let them do it.

[Laszlo]

Yes, definitely. My grandpa was a WWII vet.

Care to explain how that has affected your personal life or given you a trauma of some sorts? Genuinely interested.

Not necessarily trauma, that's a strong word, but being told war stories when I was too young to be hearing that sort of thing definitely affected me. Also, in a much wider sense, what my grandparents went through during the war shaped the way they brought up their children and in turn how my parents raised me.
I used to be deeply mistrustful of the Germans (and the Japanese to a lesser extent), not that my relatives ever outright taught me to be, I was just too young to distinguish between Germans and sizan. Endless war films on the TV at weekends and christmas didn't really help things.
I am now happy that i've gotten over that and can say that all the Germans i've ever met have been super cool, friendly people and that I positively love-off the Japanese
(inb4 Anime pillow etc)

[kay]

My parents were born during the Japanese occupation of Malaya. So they don't have huge firsthand memories but their older siblings did. But my uncles/aunts hardly ever brought it up in conversation, maybe the occasional offhand swearing at the Japanese, and allusions to having to hide the younger ones.

I wouldn't say my dad was a japanophile but he does enjoy certain aspects of their culture (ie food and the culture surrounding it). I'd say the war hasn't affected me at all, and there are a lot of things about Japanese culture that I think are better than in Chinese culture.

[nowaysj]

people still read into existentialism right?

Noam?

[Nihilism]

Belgium here. In my personal life, what I have noticed: we still make jokes about the Germans sometimes. And that's about it. Not much people I know, including friends, parents, family and other elder people I know, really care about WW2 or the holocaust. General consensus round my parts is "get over it", not as in that we should forget about it, we should remember it, but, you know, get over it. Sure it still influences us a lot; it's a very significant part of our history. But I think that the "trauma" is dying out really here.

Do you really live in Belgium? If there's one place where they still make such a big fuss about WWII (and the first one to), then it's definitely here. With all those parades and those fucking graves i don't give a fuck about. And it's not only that, i'm also sick of hearing the same bollocks over and over again. Yeah, it's worse (understatement of the year), but what's the whole point behind still whining about it? It's not like it's gonna disappear out of history.

And for the Brits that are thinking to come over here; You're only allowed to come if you take some spliffs and some pussies. Thanks.

[alphacat]

Yes, definitely. My grandpa was a WWII vet.

Care to explain how that has affected your personal life or given you a trauma of some sorts? Genuinely interested.

Both my grandfathers weren't vets. But my grandparents at my mother's side did keep English pilots in the attic though, as did a lot of other people. Was quite a brave thing to do because my town was occupied by quite a lot of Germans and they had set up quite a camp in the castle. My grandfather was a butcher's boy so he needed to bring fresh meat to the Germans in the castle in my town every few days. Germans cut his hair because they thought it was too long. Great-grandfather slapped the shit out of him afterwards because he let them do it.

He was a combat engineer, POW'd twice, had his entire unit killed leaving him the only survivor, took part in D-Day... and was undeiably scarred for life by it. They didn't call it PTSD back then - it was called shell shock and you were expected to be a man and just walk/drink it off. When I thought about joining ROTC in high school he was dead set against it; defense of country was one thing, but fighting and dying proxy wars for politicians was out of the question.

He told me stories when i was a teen that he apparently never shared with anyone else - horrific shit - and I still got the feeling he was holding back. He used to impart a lot of survival type info, like how to kill an attacking dog by ripping its jaws apart (!).

Anyway, he raised my mom and there was an impact there for sure... my mom and grandma found religion in large part as a response to the darkness he'd brought back with him. That impacted me directly, as did the stories.

[Laszlo]

^^Are you proud of what your Grandpa did?

[lovelydivot]

My grandfather was drafted into the Marines and fought in the pacific theater...
He witnessed this...




But he absolutley would not discuss anything related to the war..
I only heard one story about him stepping off a boat
and a row of guys in front of him got mowed down...

Beyond that - He kept an immaculate house - like an ad agency from the 50's...
- that smelled like cigars...

All of the oldest family photos with me as wee child look exactly like this...grey/green

[NilsFG]

Belgium here. In my personal life, what I have noticed: we still make jokes about the Germans sometimes. And that's about it. Not much people I know, including friends, parents, family and other elder people I know, really care about WW2 or the holocaust. General consensus round my parts is "get over it", not as in that we should forget about it, we should remember it, but, you know, get over it. Sure it still influences us a lot; it's a very significant part of our history. But I think that the "trauma" is dying out really here.

Do you really live in Belgium? If there's one place where they still make such a big fuss about WWII (and the first one to), then it's definitely here. With all those parades and those fucking graves i don't give a fuck about. And it's not only that, i'm also sick of hearing the same bollocks over and over again. Yeah, it's worse (understatement of the year), but what's the whole point behind still whining about it? It's not like it's gonna disappear out of history.

Yeah sure we have the graveyards and the one cermony every year, but apart from that, can't really say anything WW2 related happens round my parts. Sure, there's always gonna be those people who care too much about anything really, but it's not like there are a lot of them. Like I said before, I don't really know anyone who still cares about WW2. "It was horrible but it's in the past"

To be honest, I think more people care about WW1, because Ypres. And by "care about" I mean "had a schooltrip to Ypres, thaught about how bad war is and then moved on." I mean sure we still learn about it in school, and some schools dedicate more time to it than other events in history, but that's mainly because a) it happened in Belgium and b) it's kind of interesting and knowing major events in history is important. But really, I just can't say I've witnessed a lot of fuss about it.

I live near Brussels btw, de Rand.

[nousd]

My family seems to have been traumatized by WW1 more...the return of soldiers from Gallipoli (with "filthy" sexual habits picked up in Egypt affecting marriage breakdowns), the Western Front (having miraculously survived by becoming inured to hideous wounds and scrounging for scraps from rats they came back to only find solace amongst fellow diggers, be they Aussie or Kraut). Like said above, they didn't talk about it and had only contempt for jumped-up militarists.
They were remote from their kids until their sons, in turn, went off to WW2 & their fathers ran beside their troop trains finally showing emotion.
And that reserve still persists in the sons of sons. The inheritance of grief.
And that sorrow still persists in the dead ends of widows who died childless...cousins who never existed.

And yet Australia never had its farmers nailed to barn doors, it's girls raped & bayonetted, it's soil blown up & blood-soaked.
I could never live in Europe & Russia and walk over those corpses.
But I feel great sympathy for those that do, that get over it.

[nowaysj]

Bm - quite a photo.

Alpha - heavy shit, you'd of made a really impossing presence in combat, also, a bigger target. I prefer you alive, and only constructively crazy.

My grandpa, who later died due to sv from a polio vaccine, went where, the... Awe shit forgot the name, some r named valley in... Shit was it France... Was a mechanic, worked on airplanes. Not a lot of trauma. But it was impactful, but dying the way he did, leaving 5 kids, trauma.

[wysockisauce]

I would say it definitely has an effect.

I have heard enough things from family members that were through it and read enough about WW2 for it to sear a terrifying image into my mind. I can't think of anything worse that can happen to us than war.

As for the trauma. I don't think real trauma is possible without firsthand experience.

[nowaysj]

Yes, but we can be traumatized by those that have been traumatized, because of the traumatization, and in that, the trauma can be seen to be propagating, and most likely propagating through the generations, as parents injure and deform their children, and those children do the same.

[wysockisauce]

I don't think events witnessed in wartime (and the resulting trauma) can compare to anything a traumatized person can do to their kids. Not really speaking from experience though.

Also, I see trauma as something really serious. Something that sort of stops life in its tracks. Resulting from firsthand experience/witnessing of rape, murder, serious abuse, war, massive amounts of death/suffering etc.

So unless that war traumatized person rapes you or seriously abuses you I don't see the actual trauma persisting transgenerationally. Although an effect is definitely there I just wouldn't call it trauma.

[skell1ngton777]

the other day i asked my nana what it was like during WW2 when they were bombing towns and stuff over here.. she said a building on the end of her street was bombed and that her and her little brother enjoyed the light show and all the excitement

[hubb]

Good thread.

[m8son666]

Yes, but we can be traumatized by those that have been traumatized, because of the traumatization, and in that, the trauma can be seen to be propagating

traumaception

[lovelydivot]

...I'm just thinking of when I was getting ready to go to MoogFest...

and I was tying up some loose ends with my lesbian friend...
and her new girlfriend was there and she started asking what I was about to do...

So I'm nice - and told her where I was going...

and she starts scoffing off the end of her nose and goes...
"Well be sure to go see Dan Deacon...."

so - now I'm about to smash a bitch in the face...
(figuratively, mind you)

And I'm thinking...
How did I go from sorting everyday things - to feeling hate on a level...

That's like WAR from 0-60 in 10....