london, dubstep and graff

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:56 pm

oh, and i aint saying US dubstep is fake either. But i'm saying that anyone who just follows a genre (graf, dubstep, DnB whatever) slavishly without being open to experimentation will just produce pointelss copies. this is common sense. something a lot of writers lack.

metalboxproducts · Post by **metalboxproducts** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:25 pm

Battle Gong wrote:my 'graf's dead' comment wasnt about london, it was about graf in general.

yo, i dont doubt u had a good time bombing, so did i , but unless u r one of approximately 5 people in the whole history of european graf, u cant possibly argue u ever innovated anything.

when i say graf had been dead for a least 20 years I mean it was dead from the moment it arrived in europe. no matter how hardcore u r, from UV through to WUFC , its all just faking, its all just wannabees. we were ALL wannabees in europe. the whole graf scene is backwards looking, dreaming of the golden age of NY 1970s. this aint healthy. this doesnt lead to progress.

i aint saying yr experience of DOING graf isnt valid, I aint saying u ddint smash it, I'm saying it added nothing 2 the artform. the only writers that really count r the ones who invented it. anyone since then is just playing make believe (and that includes New York writers since the early 80s). every major innovation in graf took place before 1980, before it spread out of new york to the rest if the world. we just picked up the readymade kit and and used it, but we invented nothing. a few indiviuals in europe added their own twist, excelled at it, made it their own. but they didnt really invent anything.

and for all its image as a 'rebellious' artform, my experience is that writers r closed minded and totally unaccepting of any movement away from the norm, intollerant of anything thats not 'hardcore' or keeping it 'real' (i.e. anything new), and follow slavish the accepted rules...that is until about a year later when the very same innovation made by some lone individual that was slated for being sell-out will be addopted by everyone else and become just another style.

this is the same deal for ll artforms of course. but the resisitence to innovation followed by bandwagon copying just seems that much more extreme in graf.

so, if the future of dubstep relies upon these kind of people, i dont see it really going anywhere.

having said that tho, dubstep is already passed the 'pre-1980 golden age' stage, and is where graf was when it spred out of NYC and around the world. the people that mattered were like stay-high, cliff, fuzz etc...the rest copied. they innovated before anyone really knew what graf was, before it really had a name. same with dubstep: horsepower, el-b etc created dubstep before it had a name, innovated, now its mostly just copyists, the standard has been set, the format written in concrete.

yeah, there'll always be a few individuals who'll take it somewhere else, refresh it (in graf: delta INC, Lokiss, Os Gemeos...in dubstep: Burial, vex'd and a few others)...but effectively the period of inovation is over. like with jungle there was a rush of creativity at the beginning with the originators from Shut Up And Dance etc onwards, then a load of copyists, and a few who refined and perfected the form (photek, grooverider)...and now look at the state of DnB...its unlistenable, so far from its origins as 2 b almost unrecognisable...its so long i didnt check DnB anymore that wwhen i hear it now it kind of freaks me out, sounds like fucking trance or music for a tampax ad or someting

anyway, i digress...

So so so on point.

sully_shanks · Post by **sully_shanks** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:39 pm

kernelcoremode wrote:done graff back in 94-99, still doing a bit but not more than once a month... most of my friends who used to write with me are into dnb and dub, and nowadays more move to dubstep... i guess it fits the whole hip hop aesthetic thing, groovy beats, big basslines, head nod music...

ps. u will soon see the cover my mate did for Sully's ep, last active writer in my crew - king of athens Moka... serious graff bizzness...tps are out there now, but full artwork in a month...

yeh littl did such a sick job of that, am stoked!
got asked to paint up the front of a gallery yesterday, well lookin fwd to that...

yeh writing on walls aint nothing new. ppl were writing copeius maximus on colloseums milleniums ago. styles have definately evolved tho, u have to be blind to not see that. a lot of copying went on with the 'originators' anyways - bodes, mickey mouses etc. its all just for fun really intit!

spiro · Post by **spiro** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:47 pm

sully_shanks wrote:its all just for fun really intit!

niceone!

rudeski damager · Post by **rudeski damager** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:18 pm

used 2 b nuff little kids round my way doin all that

i remember a whole group of them used 2 go north 2 rob ppl for their spray cans

very long movements if u ask me, waiting outside fences for 3 hours, goin pen for writing on a wall.... looooooool.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:34 pm

Battle Gong wrote:oh, and i aint saying US dubstep is fake either. But i'm saying that anyone who just follows a genre (graf, dubstep, DnB whatever) slavishly without being open to experimentation will just produce pointelss copies. this is common sense. something a lot of writers lack.

Yes you have a point anyone who just follows any genre blindly is a bit fake.
But what im saying is there are a lot of writers who do come with theyre own style.Not so many as theyre used to be.Also Coza has his own style and what i said to u before is far from stupid.If i wasnt feeling someones style or tune i would tell them so and not be scared of offending them or getting smacked up.

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:44 pm

KIRK wrote:
Battle Gong wrote:oh, and i aint saying US dubstep is fake either. But i'm saying that anyone who just follows a genre (graf, dubstep, DnB whatever) slavishly without being open to experimentation will just produce pointelss copies. this is common sense. something a lot of writers lack.
Yes you have a point anyone who just follows any genre blindly is a bit fake.
But what im saying is there are a lot of writers who do come with theyre own style.Not so many as theyre used to be.Also Coza has his own style and what i said to u before is far from stupid.If i wasnt feeling someones style or tune i would tell them so and not be scared of offending them or getting smacked up.

which is why i'm on here telling u what i think of graf...anyway u brought up the issue of cosa. not me. i have nothing to gain, or even much to lose, by telling cosa what i think of him. the reality is I DONT THINK of him. mostly because i know nothing of him. mayb he's a perfectly nice guy. but its of no relevance to my life one way or the other. and he's entitled to do what he wants with his.

yo this isnt 120z here. not some internet-toy chit chat. far from it: as i make quite clear i aint even interested in graf (apart from as a social pheneomenon) anymore. u all free to do what u like, and i hope u have as good a time as i did... but just dont expect me to b impressed...innovation lies elsewhere

...apart from that, one of my oldest mates is in the dds, and he fully knows what i think

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:52 pm

Battle Gong wrote:
KIRK wrote:
Battle Gong wrote:oh, and i aint saying US dubstep is fake either. But i'm saying that anyone who just follows a genre (graf, dubstep, DnB whatever) slavishly without being open to experimentation will just produce pointelss copies. this is common sense. something a lot of writers lack.
Yes you have a point anyone who just follows any genre blindly is a bit fake.
But what im saying is there are a lot of writers who do come with theyre own style.Not so many as theyre used to be.Also Coza has his own style and what i said to u before is far from stupid.If i wasnt feeling someones style or tune i would tell them so and not be scared of offending them or getting smacked up.
which is why i'm on here telling u what i think of graf...anyway u brought up the issue of cosa. not me. i have nothing to gain, or even much to lose, by telling cosa what i think of him. the reality is I DONT THINK of him. mostly because i know nothing of him. mayb he's a perfectly nice guy. but its of no relevance to my life one way or the other. and he's entitled to do what he wants with his.

yo this isnt 120z here. not some internet-toy chit chat. far from it: as i make quite clear i aint even interested in graf (apart from as a social pheneomenon) anymore. u all free to do what u like, and i hope u have as good a time as i did... but just dont expect me to b impressed...innovation lies elsewhere

...apart from that, one of my oldest mates is in the dds, and he fully knows what i think

Bruv you obviously dont have a clue what ur talking about.Graff is a statement.
I dont write okay so it means nothing to me as well.I just dont like it when i see someone giving it the biggun about something they dnt know nothing about.

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:04 pm

So, this is a deliberate wind up right? u r having me on yeah?

YOU, that dont write, are accusing ME who started writing in 1985 and have been involved in some form or other ever since of not knowing what i talking about?

Yeah, graf is a statement alright. Only what it states has changed over the years...now it says to me that u lack imagination in findin a decent way to rebel.

lets leave it here. we both got better things to do with our time.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:08 pm

Bruv I make tunes.Im comfortable with what i do.

I have a lot of friends who write and i just disagree with what you are sayin.CALM yourself down and stop gettin ur knickers in a twist.

mez one · Post by **mez one** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:22 pm

Graff writer and dubstep fiend. check.

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:30 pm

KIRK wrote:Bruv I make tunes.Im comfortable with what i do.

I have a lot of friends who write and i just disagree with what you are sayin.CALM yourself down and stop gettin ur knickers in a twist.

1> Im perfectly calm thanks

2> u r free to disagree

3> saying "u dont know what u on about" is not any kind of argument

graf is many things to many people. ive made clear what it means 2 me above.

ive also made clear i have no problem with any1 else doing it.

u dont agree, and thats cool.

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:33 pm

This topic has turned into some madness,im hear to speak about dubstep and mabye cpt kirk.
this is pointless.

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:36 pm

arite, lets hear about captain kirk then

laters

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:37 pm

go on the secret ninja section its all there.

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:39 pm

ah, ok

anyway, i hate to say it but...

captain kirk is dead ; )

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:42 pm

CPT KIRK is the best.Everyone knows that!

John Locke · Post by **John Locke** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:47 pm

yo, captain kirk sucks the horses dick

but seriously, now i got 2concede I genuinely have no idea what i talkin about. will hav 2 trust u on this one. u say kirky rukes, then he rules.

now i really am goin

honest

kirk · Post by **kirk** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:54 pm

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:59 pm

KIRK wrote: I just dont like it when i see someone giving it the biggun about something they dnt know nothing about.

The internet was invented so people can give it the biggun about things they know nothing about. Any claims of an 'information super highway' are massively over hyped.

london, dubstep and graff

Who is online