Kick & Bass Frequencies...?

miss_molinari · Post by **miss_molinari** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:34 pm

Whineo wrote:
miss_molinari wrote:
i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness. for example, my kick is going along happily. one gets used to its timbre and the way it moves the air....then the bass drops and all his changes. im not up for that. my kick should be constant throughout the song (when this is my aim) regardless of whether the bass has dropped or not...
either Sidechain them or carve out the kick frequencies in the Bass....

.... ....

its probably my fault, as soon as i type "i am trying to..." people assume i want quick-fix 'answers'. im just looking for a bit of tech talk, but thanks for the input.

i ask about bass+kick cause i know how to go about it succesfully, which translates pretty directly into boredom. i want to find some ways of doing it that im not succesful at

(yet!) and experiment with them...

peace.

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Thu May 15, 2008 2:59 pm

miss_molinari wrote: i ask about bass+kick cause i know how to go about it succesfully, which translates pretty directly into boredom. i want to find some ways of doing it that im not succesful at (yet!) and experiment with them...
peace.

How about bussing your kicks with your bass rather than the rest of drum tracks in a kind of sub 150 hz grouping??

james fox · Post by **james fox** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:15 pm

i don't tend to think about frequencies as every track is different, ergo there is no need for a 'one size fits all' approach. here is how i do it:

sidechain kick + bass with a fast attack and release - dead easy and works a treat

OR

solo yr kick drum and put a parametric EQ on it. turn the Q up, boost it some and sweep carefully through the low frequencies til it 'rings' in tune (you'll see what i mean). make a note of the frequency and delete the EQ. then put a parametric EQ on yr bass track and dip it at that frequency, with quite a high Q. then the kick and bass should fit together nicely

this works better with less subby kicks, if you must have a subby kick and heavy sub bassline then sidechaining is probably better...

IMO

edit: erm, what whineo said basically

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Thu May 15, 2008 3:55 pm

i don't tend to think about frequencies as every track is different, ergo there is no need for a 'one size fits all' approach.

Surely it is neccessary to treat each frequency range suffiecently so that no frequency clashes occurs? The frequency content of a lead or pad may well go below 100Hz, and this would ultimately affect any kicks and subs in the track.

Imo, a well treated track sounds better than a untreated track, even though no two tracks are the same!

james fox · Post by **james fox** » Thu May 15, 2008 4:00 pm

futures_untold wrote:
i don't tend to think about frequencies as every track is different, ergo there is no need for a 'one size fits all' approach.
Surely it is neccessary to treat each frequency range suffiecently so that no frequency clashes occurs? The frequency content of a lead or pad may well go below 100Hz, and this would ultimately affect any kicks and subs in the track.

Imo, a well treated track sounds better than a untreated track, even though no two tracks are the same!

i phrased that badly, i mean i don't dip my bass at 97hz or whatever on every track i do - it depends on the kick i use, or how i programme the bass sound

futures_untold · Post by **futures_untold** » Thu May 15, 2008 4:01 pm

i mean i don't dip my bass at 97hz or whatever on every track i do

Yeah right, that would sound crap!

james fox · Post by **james fox** » Thu May 15, 2008 4:03 pm

futures_untold wrote:
i mean i don't dip my bass at 97hz or whatever on every track i do
Yeah right, that would sound crap!

well, quite

docwra · Post by **docwra** » Thu May 15, 2008 5:05 pm

miss_molinari wrote:
Docwra wrote:If your making your drums and kicks punchy enough et etc then you shouldnt have to cut frequencies it should punch through your bass clearly. EQ can kill a sample, thats why a lot of peoples stuff tend to sound thin.
im not sure about this. its been my experience ('miss thin-mix') that alot of dubstep sounds like garbage (from a kind-of technicalish ppoint of view) exactly because of this. people look for the "heavy" sounds and most sound artificial (not mixed well) or everywhere clashy (i.e. not reasonably eq'd/mixed).

yes many (or most heavy) kicks can 'punch' through bass but not without affecting either/both the kick and bass...this is fine but not the sound i am looking for.

i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness. for example, my kick is going along happily. one gets used to its timbre and the way it moves the air....then the bass drops and all his changes. im not up for that. my kick should be constant throughout the song (when this is my aim) regardless of whether the bass has dropped or not...

i must admit, the thought of talking production in the Production forum amused me a little. i considered putting a sarky remark in my original post in an attempt to bait replies (as i thought it'd be the only way id get em). glad i didnt...

peace.

All im saying is once iv processed my drums, compressed eq'd etc to the desired state, alot of the time i don't need to notch the sub and clear away from it if i can.

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:38 pm

Could someone briefly explain what sidechaining is please?

martello · Post by **martello** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:49 pm

boyd wrote:Could someone briefly explain what sidechaining is please?

Go to youtube and search for sidechain

boyd · Post by **boyd** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:51 pm

alvin18 wrote:
boyd wrote:Could someone briefly explain what sidechaining is please?

Go to youtube and search for sidechain

fine..

docwra · Post by **docwra** » Thu May 15, 2008 7:59 pm

miss_molinari wrote:
futures_untold wrote:
i am trying to create kick/bass combinations that do not alter each other, that sit independantly in the mix while both still managing to bring the heaviness.
Maybe try using Linear Phase EQ/Compressors? Waves offer some, as do others. (Google linear phase plugins).
cheers, i wasnt saying however that i was failing , just wanted other peoples takes on the techy side of kick/bass/ness.

cheers though, Waves is the bestest.

To be fair i would never use a waves eq again. So grainy and just shit for cutting and boosting frequencies. URS piss over waves all day long

docwra · Post by **docwra** » Thu May 15, 2008 8:05 pm

even the fl parametric eq's better than gayves

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:31 pm

The Waves eq may look shitty and dated but its a seriously good eq.
Its been industry standard for a long time.

docwra · Post by **docwra** » Thu May 15, 2008 9:53 pm

Whineo wrote:The Waves eq may look shitty and dated but its a seriously good eq.
Its been industry standard for a long time.

If you bothered to read what i said then......

The waves parametric eq's are poor put alongside URS or Sony Oxford Eq's to name a few. For the price you pay they really are a knock job. Not that i paid for it or would.....

I couldn't give a fuk if they were industry id still favour other eq's over them

whineo · Post by **whineo** » Thu May 15, 2008 11:40 pm

I read this..

Docwra wrote: To be fair i would never use a waves eq again. So grainy and just shit for cutting and boosting frequencies. URS piss over waves all day long

even the fl parametric eq's better than gayves

i was not convinced with the breakdown of the pros and cons.

beerz · Post by **beerz** » Thu May 15, 2008 11:49 pm

boyd wrote:
alvin18 wrote:
boyd wrote:Could someone briefly explain what sidechaining is please?

Go to youtube and search for sidechain
fine..

for these examples im assuming its side chain compression your after and its simply where the kick is linked to the compressor on the bass so every time the kick hits, the compressor takes action on the bass so as to compress it momentarily to make room for the kick. when the kick is released the bass is uncompressed again.

miss_molinari · Post by **miss_molinari** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:45 am

bEErz wrote:
boyd wrote:
alvin18 wrote:
boyd wrote:Could someone briefly explain what sidechaining is please?

Go to youtube and search for sidechain
fine..
for these examples im assuming its side chain compression your after and its simply where the kick is linked to the compressor on the bass so every time the kick hits, the compressor takes action on the bass so as to compress it momentarily to make room for the kick. when the kick is released the bass is uncompressed again.

my sidechaining is done currently inside PEQ2 in FL (so there Doc :p) by automating various filter types within that. very much freedom and good workflow this way i have found (sry for yoda talk, iv read too many old books). having 2xPEQ2 in every track as standard in FL makes me cream a little..

peace.

addict · Post by **addict** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:54 pm

boyd wrote:Big up threads like these, kind of stuff i need to learn a lot more about

yeh, this bit of production is vital for me i think. I always get pissed off that my kicks dissapear when the b-line is on top so need to start playing around. when u people say cut & roll-off do u mean ur eq-ing it like that?

i need a good frequency analyzer (FREE if poss) if anyone can help.

relik · Post by **relik** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:07 pm

AdDICT wrote: i need a good frequency analyzer (FREE if poss) if anyone can help.

I thought you were using FL? There's a spectrum analyzer laid right over the PEQ2.

Kick & Bass Frequencies...?

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