another question..

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:39 pm

dbl post

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:40 pm

What I see is happening is that there is an abundance of things and yet everyone wants an inflated price for all those things - It's like stealing from the poor and the rich to make profits sky rocket - to benefit the few who already have a foundation.

I'll explain how this is effecting me personally -

OK, I went to college for Metal and Jewelry design, I'm a smith - I have most of my tools, but can't afford a place to set up my gear - a studio if you will.

I could get a loan, but I am not sure if I will be able to generate enough cash monthly to pay it - WHY? Because there are 3 or 4 Clairs Boutiques in the mall that sell every sort of cheap ass jewelry you could ever want..and although the stuff is made with junk metals and plastics..it is so cheap and looks so good that very few people would patronize me on a scale that I would need to survive..

NOW - If I could get cheaper rent, I may be able to create a stir over time and eventually offer classes, in a sort of discipline specific community arts center if you will..and in the process I could develop a line of jewelry that could be produced with the help of students/employees that could sell over a broader market - and I don't mean a junk line - I mean a designer line..

But no property holder is interested when they can let their space sit open for a year and a half until a real estate broker takes the space at an inflated rate...and they get paid by the junk jewelry manufacturer who strip mines young strapped chinese people and teachers them to produce plastic junk on a huge scale that they could never do on their own, which ends up in land fills as soon as fashion trends flip...

Don't get me wrong - I enjoy plastics as a material, but on a small scale, the equipment is not affordable..neither is casting, but I could contract out for that, if at some point an element would be warrented..

Now you could say - Why don't I just move to Hong Kong and get employeed with the company making stuff on a large scale - because that is like winning the lottery, but only with extra odds against me.

Here is another interesting flip on the whole thing - In the past 6 to 8 years, I personally have noticed a glut in goods, BUT they are all high priced..and they are not moving..they are not high priced because they are worth it..that's where the rich are being targeted..and the manufacturer is willing to wait to get the inflated price..but the abundance of the stuff is cancelling the novelty of the thing which makes it desirable..

and this is where I throw up...because I was trying to do a monthy for electronic music with my profits that don't exist anymore, so I will just listen to free mixes on line for now- no jewelry.

Thank You - I will purchase records when I can.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:40 pm

@ elbe

Re: Charity I wasn't talking literally and no, I wouldn't be suprised.

You've just become a case in point for what I was saying.

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:45 pm

@ maroon sounds like your stuck in the same boat as everyone who wants to make money out of being creative.

may I suggest gettin a 'normal' job, working very hard to get enugf cash up to rent the shittest cheapest space that can possible work for a studio, then continue with this job to support yourself whilst making you jewlwery in your spare time and selling it on the web if you are luck and good enough someone might recognise you and you may be able to start making a living out of it.

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:52 pm

jubz

i don't think u get me.

the point I am making is most people would agree that the right way to be is altruistic, its not hard to do, and it is quite easy to take steps in that direction. Instead they choose to continue in an egotisic way, they don't take these easy steps, the reason why? because egoism is a stronger pulling force, because people are essentially individual, concerned with their own survival, and like animals concered with passing thier genes onto future generations we are sociable but ultimatly the prevaling and strongest force is egoistic.

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:53 pm

...or I could just go back on the scene and travel around moving pills.

That would be funnest and easiest!!!

Joking...kids..

...sort of..

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:02 pm

The best solution I have found now is to sign back on with school so I can have access to their studio..and stack some classes towards teaching certificate so I may qualify to sign on with an institution..

So - It's like I pay an educational institution to preserve a semi-public space for me and others.

..for others and myself.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:03 pm

I get you el,

What I'm saying is that everything you have reeled off in your past two paragraphs is a case in point for what I was saying, only where you attribute egoism as the absolute I attribute the influence of an unfair economic system as the absolute; egoism is then a byproduct of the situation (though I don't believe man without capitalism is man free of ego).

bright maroon · Post by **bright maroon** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:06 pm

...but you should see how the kids in my class are acting..

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:13 pm

but that neglets exaclty what I am saying.

you are right, capatilism helps the egoism but egoism is not a by product of capatalism, it is ingrained in the nature of humanity. I would argue that capatilism is the by product of our egotistic nature, its development and grasp on our life in modern times shows the strenght of the egotistic force, and proves that this is a stronger than alturism.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:42 pm

I would argue that your view on the development of capitalism is skewed, far from being some kind of collective 'awakening' it was a process of implemented views by oligarchs who held all the wealth and thus were certain they wanted to protect it. Far from getting a say, the desperate many had no choice but to follow out of survival. Look at the world now under capitalism - the many are needy and the few are stupidly rich most people do not believe this to be either a good thing or fair but these people are influenced by the system they live in, constantly being duped in to believing that one day they could be one of the lucky few.

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:52 pm

I would never argue it was a collective awakening. or that it a good thing. I completely agree that it allows the few luxuary whilst many suffer.

what I argue is that it was born out of our selfish desires. that this selfish desires are one and the same as our need to survive. that this need to survive is the basic princible behind all life an thus, if we strip away all other factors here and lay the human psyche bare to the principles we are arguing, altruism and egoism it is egoism that has the strongest link to our basic desire to survive which is why are egotisitc nature is, in general, powerful than our alturistic one.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:02 pm

I would say what you are talking about is self interest not egoism.

Anyway - I'm going home fucker.

elbe · Post by **elbe** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:06 pm

u tnuc. I gotta stay til half 5.

Jubz · Post by **Jubz** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:36 pm

evry1s a tnuc m8

concept_ · Post by **concept_** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:10 pm

Jubscarz wrote:these people are influenced by the system they live in, constantly being duped in to believing that one day they could be one of the lucky few.

this is fundamentally what I was trying to say in my earlier post- it is this influence that can act as a driving force for the poor/working class etc. living in such a capitalist society- the American Dream for example. It's not right and the sooner people realise we are all insignificant as a single person, the sooner we can work together to make things better now and for the future imo.

Not to say i'm communist, but im definately anti-capitalist. Sadly I don't see the situation changing, even if it did, a new system wouldn't be sustainable due to the foundations of everything we rely on.

Maroon- I sympathise with you; every high street in England is now generic with Woolworths, Topshop, Game, Primark etc. killing true creative flair and any success in independent industry. I guess you jsut have to look for the right market in these kind of situations- I know it is different but independent music hasn't totally folded under majors for example because it appeals to true music fans.

In the same way, young kids are always going to go to Claire's as it is tacky/cheap but it is what they want. Is this what you want to make? Surely if you identify your target audience and get your product to reach them then you have more likelihood of success? It would require more effort definately but depends on your determination and how much time/commitment you are willing to invest.

A more realistic idea would be to find an independent jewellers whose business ethics and target customers appeal to your own style and build up enough experience at such an establishment to branch off and create your own jewellers...?

I'm no expert

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