commercialism

[corpsey]

As far as I know dubstep's never had a 'fuck the mainstream' attitude though, unlike punk.

[reptilian]

well i might be wrong but i think mala has always had a pretty firm ethical stance regarding art vs. profits

maybe i was wrong to think that others might have shared these views

[surface_tension]

katy perry remix

nike tie ins

mtv adverts


what about the underground independent spirit of dubstep - has this been forgotten?? theres a massive worldwide underground interest in dubstep - is this level of mainstream commercialisation really necessary??

I think you have to ask yourself if the music is becoming worse because of the commercials and the notoriety, or because it is getting worse... or if it's getting worse at all. Nothing pisses me off worse than fairweather fans. You only love the team as long as they are winning. You only love the music as long as it is "underground" etc...

I used to be that way in High School, when I was a kid. I grew up and put away those childish things and realized that sometimes things are popular because they are good. I think we all should examine our motives for why we change our tune. For instance, I once loved Glamma, even though I found it to be a bit cheesy when I first heard it, but in that time and place it was what got me out of a musical rut. I was ready to give up on DJing and producing. Now the cheese aspect of the tune, and tunes like it grates at me big time. Was it ever a good tune, was it just me growing up... or was it me responding to the general anti-wobble sentiment that I have seen around me?

I don't have the answers there, but I am considering it a lot lately... do I hate on things because it is the popular thing to do? Is it a matter of convenience for me to hate on it? Did it become played out and overdone? Who knows... but I don't like Glamma anymore. At the time it was the best track I owned, but now it's like MEH. Your mileage may vary.

I think the people who say that we are driving things commercial need to step back and realize what it means to not NEED a real job, and having the ability to simply make music and tour, doing shows and playing parties. It can only be a good thing for people to be able to make a living playing music. Haters be damned. Don't knock the hustle.

[reptilian]

haters be damned? dont knock the hustle?

wow, you sound like 50 cent

have you ever thought that doing nothing but making music isnt necessarily the best thing in the world either. working in a decent job part time can help to keep an artists feet on the ground and in touch with real life

money doesnt buy you happiness, feeling good about what you do in life makes you happy tho even if money is tight. at least youve got integrity

[deamonds]

[surface_tension]

haters be damned? dont knock the hustle?

wow, you sound like 50 cent

have you ever thought that doing nothing but making music isnt necessarily the best thing in the world either. working in a decent job part time can help to keep an artists feet on the ground and in touch with real life

money doesnt buy you happiness, feeling good about what you do in life makes you happy tho even if money is tight. at least youve got integrity

has nothing to do with the money, so much as being able to spend a month working on some tunes and not having to worry about paying bills or having to take off work to make tunes. Making a living doesn't mean you'd be rich or even doing that well... it could mean squeeking by for all we know.

There are people who are working musicians out there who aren't rich, but definitely aren't destitute. It's a nice goal to have IMO, and I support people who have that dream. That's all. It's a matter of being able to share your music with people on a daily basis, and having that connection with others, not having all the money of others. Sorry if it sounded like that. And I wasn't directing that at you, just people who think it's a stupid goal to want to play music as a job, as well as a passion. If you like computers and can get a job working with them, nobody will call you a sellout, know what I mean?

If you love music and can get a gig doing that for a living, it's just another career of many. I just don't understand why people look down on that or assume you can't be grounded as a working musician.. more than a couple working musicians post on these forum and are pretty grounded.

[reptilian]

"There are people who are working musicians out there who aren't rich, but definitely aren't destitute. It's a nice goal to have IMO, and I support people who have that dream. That's all".

i 100% agree with you on this, of course you can be a grounded working musician

i wasnt talking about playing shows and selling records tho i was talking about more controversial ways of making money like doing ads

[ovesen]

have you ever thought that doing nothing but making music isnt necessarily the best thing in the world either. working in a decent job part time can help to keep an artists feet on the ground and in touch with real life

Truth. Allthough I woulden't necessarily equal a "jobsituation" as more of the real world, than making music all day, but that's beside the point....

For me it's more about not mixing up finances and art too much. As I have experienced most of times it doesn't end up that well...

Having a job that doesn't have anything to do with my music, might only have brought one gig a month during the four years I've been doing liveshows. But, I can make whatever sound I feel funky, as long as few people out there actually care, and still maintain a certain level of lux lifestyle....

I think the risk of not moving forward is bigger, if your total income depends on your musical output, than if you feel free to do whatever silliness you find suitable.

The people who would pay money to Nike to hear a punk band, had it comming, by the way. You left the underground the minute you would even think about paying. Not saying leaving the underground is a bad thing, and not saying you're not able to move freely between the 2. Therefore I don't think that "when you have sold your soul you can never get it back" as one poster put it.

[surface_tension]

I can see that perspective as well. I just like the idea of access, meaning access to better gear, access to working with better known producers, MC's, singers, maybe working in a different genre... yes, if you have a deal you might be limited, this is true. But that deal sucked to begin with lol

Sounds like there are a few things to consider when making that choice. I liked watching the Red Bull Music Academy rap session with Mala and his answers about why he took it to the "doing it as a career" kinda thing. Man is on some next level tunes, I don't think anyone would argue that it's not a good thing he is able to spend all his time playing out and making tunes.

I'm jealous frankly. That would be a neat way to make a living, even if it was just barely surviving. How worth it would that be? VERY worth it to me

[argonaut]

I think its quite hard for dubstep to get properly mainstream because of the place you need to hear it, a club. The first thing I do when I listen to a tune is imagine what it would be like in a club with a sick sound system. To explain the actual way a tune feels is too difficult. I reckon if more people started going to clubs the music would get out more because people could appreciate what dubsteps really about?

yeah, couldnt agree more, it's a whole different thing in a club, it's hard to get folk into it through them hearing it in headphones or something, it's all about feeling the bass

[Littlefoot]

dubstep doesnt and has never needed "the mainstream"

[reptilian]

theres more than one way to run a music career it depends on your personal values as to what choices you make.

at the end of the day its always going to be swings and roundabouts in terms of what you gain and lose

maybe the important factor is whether you did it for art or money. i can believe that skream saw an artistic challenge in nikes offer (putting aside ethical issues with the company themselves) and i do think hes got a lot of integrity as an artist

there is an exchange in these situations tho and the company is taking a bit of your aura. some artists are strong enough to overcome this and come out intact. i still love the tune "are you experienced" even though it was used on an ad. i cant say the same for some other tunes that have been used in this way

[kay]

i wasnt talking about playing shows and selling records tho i was talking about more controversial ways of making money like doing ads

I've never really understood why doing ads is considered controversial. Frankly, I love it when I suddenly see an ad on tv with a tune in the background by an act that I've supported for years that wasn't generally well known during that time. Even better when it's an old tune. I just think "Yes! Their hard work and effort has finally paid off! Also, my taste in music clearly wasn't that bad or crazy!".

It's like being the only person you know that likes a particular tune and then randomly walking into a room and finding it filled with people who like that tune too. Bit like this forum really.

[promo]

and add vocals

yeah most of the people I've played dubstep to (and who dont like it) say its boring, and is "soundtrack music" My view is that alot of people like to be able to sing along to a tune (hence vocals or a catchy riff) to be honest some of the best dubstep tunes do have vocals, Skeng, Jah war, Poison Dart, In luv with you, to name a few. One thing I've really grown to like is dubstep with an MC who properly spits bars over the top (theres a Wiley and Kode 9 set from back in 2006 which never leaves my I pod)

All the people I work with listen to absolute crap. Their taste sucks balls but would I play them dubstep no. Either you're of the mind looking for it or you're not. I think discussions like this have been on a loop for years and years whether it be dubstep, breakcore, jungle, techno, acid, house, electro, jazz fusion, pyschedelia or countless other genres.

[promo]

"There are people who are working musicians out there who aren't rich, but definitely aren't destitute. It's a nice goal to have IMO, and I support people who have that dream. That's all".

i 100% agree with you on this, of course you can be a grounded working musician

i wasnt talking about playing shows and selling records tho i was talking about more controversial ways of making money like doing ads

If someone paid me a couple k or more to give a tune for an ad then I'd do it in heartbeat as its all money in the bank.

[surface_tension]

One of the guys on our label, Overcast Radio, does scoring for movies, commercials and trailers for movies. Dude does music for a living and is a professional musician and publisher of music. And frankly, I'm jealous. That would be the sickest job you could have.

He has integrity. And he also makes money doing what he loves, but we've also discussed how sometimes you get a call and have 24 hours to have something ready or you don't get the job. There is a certain amount of pressure that I don't currently have placed on me by anyone else OR myself.

http://www.circa70.org/credits.html give those a look. And he's releasing on our second release forthcoming. Serious musicianship shouldn't be considered selling out, it just means that others recognize it. That means the sounds get out to a larger audience. Good things all around.

[dubloke]

All the people I work with listen to absolute crap. Their taste sucks balls but would I play them dubstep no. Either you're of the mind looking for it or you're not. I think discussions like this have been on a loop for years and years whether it be dubstep, breakcore, jungle, techno, acid, house, electro, jazz fusion, pyschedelia or countless other genres.

yeah I've stopped showing people it now, I'm tired of being called a crackhead

[reptilian]

One of the guys on our label, Overcast Radio, does scoring for movies, commercials and trailers for movies. Dude does music for a living and is a professional musician and publisher of music. And frankly, I'm jealous. That would be the sickest job you could have.

He has integrity. And he also makes money doing what he loves.

fair play to the guy, hes obviously talented. if he gets pleasure out of it and it pays him thats cool

it would be my idea of hell personally having to come up with the music to WWE or some hollywood film. different strokes for different folks

i guess i always saw dubstep as more of an experimental underground style of music and always thought it was quite a diy independent thing that was into creating its own distribution network. i wouldnt have thought it would even work in an advert context really.

also, like it or not there are ethical issues in doing adverts. like, whether you want the work you have created to be used to promote something which is potentially exploitative or negative - like nike or some of the other mega corporations on your mate's cv.

[mechabot 01]

One of the guys on our label, Overcast Radio, does scoring for movies, commercials and trailers for movies. Dude does music for a living and is a professional musician and publisher of music. And frankly, I'm jealous. That would be the sickest job you could have.

He has integrity. And he also makes money doing what he loves.

fair play to the guy, hes obviously talented. if he gets pleasure out of it and it pays him thats cool

it would be my idea of hell personally having to come up with the music to WWE or some hollywood film. different strokes for different folks

i guess i always saw dubstep as more of an experimental underground style of music and always thought it was quite a diy independent thing that was into creating its own distribution network. i wouldnt have thought it would even work in an advert context really.

also, like it or not there are ethical issues in doing adverts. like, whether you want the work you have created to be used to promote something which is potentially exploitative or negative - like nike or some of the other mega corporations on your mate's cv.

This is getting silly, you obviously use a computer, I'm betting you also have a cell/mobile phone, drink sodas/beer, wear branded trainers etc etc.

Hypocracy is not a good look bruv.

[tercerojista]

well i might be wrong but i think mala has always had a pretty firm ethical stance regarding art vs. profits

maybe i was wrong to think that others might have shared these views

Go ahead and put on a dubstep night, and try booking some of your favourite "not for profit" djs, and find out how much they charge...

Everyone's entitled to do whatever they want. And everyone needs money. And I have no problem whatsoever with artists getting as much money as they can, so long as they're content with what they're doing. If a producer stops making tunes you find appealing, then you don't have to continue buying them. If a scene becomes less interesting for you, then there's always another.

I don't think that there's much truly interesting music, or truly interesting art of any form, that will ever manage to grab the attention of the mainstream (at least not in a positive light), because, let's face it, most people on the face of this earth don't have particularly refined tastes regarding aesthetics. Simon Cowell probably makes more money than the whole dubstep scene combined.