hmmm...
...like piracy isn't a major thing when it comes to radio but it is on then net
weird how, it's OK to buy vinyl, rip mixes and share them but not the indy trax yet all some people want is the mix...
...thanx gutter for flagging this interview with plasticman and j-vex'd
J (vexd): The problem you need to understand is that the sales level of dubstep has been so small up until now, it is a big risk to put out a record. When youÂ’re selling 500 records and not all dubstep records do, not all GOOD dubstep records sell 500 records, although it might be changing now, youÂ’re not breaking even. You might JUST break even.
C(plastic): ItÂ’s a big risk to press 500 records.
J: ItÂ’s no wonder there are so few record labels out there, really. And now I think itÂ’s started to become more viable. YouÂ’ll hopefully see more dubstep records cominÂ’ out. Because also the shelves in record stores are empty of dubstep. ThereÂ’s not much out there to find right now. But there are so many dubs to hear on Rinse FM on the radio. Just white label stuff that ainÂ’t getting released. Not even white labels, stuff that doesnÂ’t even make it to white labels.
T( interviewer): How does that come around?
J: People make DJ mixes, an artist makes a tune, burns off however many CDs to however many DJs are choosing to play his music. TheyÂ’ll cut it to dub or play straight off CD. And thatÂ’s as far as it goes for so many tunes. But these tunes may be really influential in this small group of people who are listening and feeding off of that. But in terms of people from outside that small London base, theyÂ’re not aware of these shows at all, unless they download them off the Internet. And thatÂ’s where the internet comes in. This is the first music that has really been propelled by the internet in terms of spreading it outside of that small London area.
T: Every big artist, it seems; you guys both have blogs, simple onesÂ…DJ/Rupture has a blog, Kode 9, sites like Gutterbreakz, and all of them have great mixes up all the time.
C: I think thatÂ’s key at the moment. The whole internet, I think like I was saying to Jamie the other day, get more mixes out. Like IÂ’m gonna try to put a new mix up every couple of months if I can because the response I had to the last one has been crazy. We literally put up a link to it one of them sort of like, [hosting service] Yousendit things. We literally had to re-up it every couple of hours because 25 people had downloaded it every hour. ThatÂ’s pretty fast. Considering the amount of people who buy records. If thereÂ’s only 500 record sales but 100 people have downloaded your mix in 4 hours, thatÂ’s pretty mental. So thereÂ’re obviously people interested, but it might just be more people who are musically interested rather than actually DJs who wanna buy our vinyl. ItÂ’ll be interesting to see what CDs do.
J: Well if you put it up in MP3, you can get it on a CD, your iPod, whatever, on your laptop all the time. Almost all the dubstep records are on vinyl only. For someone who doesnÂ’t DJ, for someone whoÂ’s not trying to make it as a DJ itÂ’s not a particularly, itÂ’s not even worth investing in. You might not even own a record player. You have grime records coming out that are 6, 7 pounds for one side. Awful.
C: Distribution is the most difficult thing.
J: ItÂ’s such a risk in England, putting records out, we donÂ’t know the market over here and then they donÂ’t sell. No one wants to pay 500 pounds to press another record, and that's another record you canÂ’t put out.
J: ThatÂ’s where stuff like Bleep.com comes out. A lot of people bought my whole album in mp3.
C: TerrorhythmÂ’s on bleep, the whole back catalogue.
C: There's a section on Bleep called Road. My whole back catalog's on there. Four releases at the moment. Road is that kind of section, I don't know why they call it Road. To be honest they should just call it grime, something that people actually know what it means. Road is kind of a London term. Anyone who sees Road, it looks like a record label. You can search it and it says Terrorhythm. We've got 4 releases on there. I like to put the mp3 release out before I put the record out, it gives people an excuse to go buy it online before it's out. The Cha vocal will probably be on Bleep in the next couple of weeks, if anyone reads the article and they fancy.
http://dustedmagazine.com/features/397
so why doesn't Plasticman get people to pay for his mix instead of giving it away ???
Would u pay for an exclusive hi bit DJ mix ???
^^^everyone does it !!!
...from the bedroom DJ to the pirate radio DJ
and thats also the point if you're giving it away for free and not making a profit then you're not contravening copyright but more so if the tunes aren't registered with copyright agencies...
...so only put out your own mix of your own tunes and get permission from the other artists you do want to include for a percentage and sell em online
naturally you need to have established a profile before you shift any major units though...
...from the bedroom DJ to the pirate radio DJ
and thats also the point if you're giving it away for free and not making a profit then you're not contravening copyright but more so if the tunes aren't registered with copyright agencies...
...so only put out your own mix of your own tunes and get permission from the other artists you do want to include for a percentage and sell em online
naturally you need to have established a profile before you shift any major units though...
c/- DEPT of HELL SCIENCE
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alex bk-bk
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alex bk-bk
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alex bk-bk
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i reckon it will be worth it dgg...
...you make up the savings in turnaround time and lower overheads
tipper's album will be the one to watch as he's done the major label and numerous sub labels but now it looks like he's just repping himself and his music from his own site...
why shouldn't it be that as soon as you've completed a tune post it up for sale or if you've got a few backed up then post that up in a mix for sale as well ???
for instance who wouldn't pay for a mix of skream only unreleased dubs ???
...you make up the savings in turnaround time and lower overheads
tipper's album will be the one to watch as he's done the major label and numerous sub labels but now it looks like he's just repping himself and his music from his own site...
why shouldn't it be that as soon as you've completed a tune post it up for sale or if you've got a few backed up then post that up in a mix for sale as well ???
for instance who wouldn't pay for a mix of skream only unreleased dubs ???
c/- DEPT of HELL SCIENCE
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pete_bubonic
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Selling hi rate encoded mixes won't work in Dubstep because of several reasons:
- Unless your name is Chef, Youngsta, Plasticman or Vex'd, chances are someone else out there will do a similar mix with similar tunes for free and probably it do it better than you.
- The turnover in dubstep seems to be fairly consistent, so unless your putting tunes in that simply aren't going to be released or will take mammoth amounts of time to get released, people will wait.
- The majority of people I have met involved with the scene or keen on it, aren't exactly loaded and as a result are very unlikely to pay for something that has no tangible physical substance, unlike a mix cd.
I personally think you're jumping the gun with this drive to make money from Dubstep yet. The biggest nights in the UK still stuggle to ram out, record sales seem to rarely clock a thousand shifted units and to my own personal opinion is that in it's current state, Dubstep is benefitting somewhat from not having a good cash flow. Don't get me wrong, I want people to get their dues, but there's soo much good music being produced, with no expectation of getting anything back, it seems the music is the first priority, the innovation, pushing something new, rather making a track to put food on the table. I'm sure it will change and become more popular, but then it's in my mind even less likely to move towards selling hi rate mp3 mixes, because their will be more and more nameless lowlevel chumps like me vying for attention and to cut our own niche out and willing to do it for free.
If you are looking to make cash out of this thing Dubmugga, I would stick to your graphic design and tshirt printing, for instance, the Boxcutter design with the level meters and scalpel was good, I'm sure if you kept working at that with that level of design you could produce a turnover from it.
- Unless your name is Chef, Youngsta, Plasticman or Vex'd, chances are someone else out there will do a similar mix with similar tunes for free and probably it do it better than you.
- The turnover in dubstep seems to be fairly consistent, so unless your putting tunes in that simply aren't going to be released or will take mammoth amounts of time to get released, people will wait.
- The majority of people I have met involved with the scene or keen on it, aren't exactly loaded and as a result are very unlikely to pay for something that has no tangible physical substance, unlike a mix cd.
I personally think you're jumping the gun with this drive to make money from Dubstep yet. The biggest nights in the UK still stuggle to ram out, record sales seem to rarely clock a thousand shifted units and to my own personal opinion is that in it's current state, Dubstep is benefitting somewhat from not having a good cash flow. Don't get me wrong, I want people to get their dues, but there's soo much good music being produced, with no expectation of getting anything back, it seems the music is the first priority, the innovation, pushing something new, rather making a track to put food on the table. I'm sure it will change and become more popular, but then it's in my mind even less likely to move towards selling hi rate mp3 mixes, because their will be more and more nameless lowlevel chumps like me vying for attention and to cut our own niche out and willing to do it for free.
If you are looking to make cash out of this thing Dubmugga, I would stick to your graphic design and tshirt printing, for instance, the Boxcutter design with the level meters and scalpel was good, I'm sure if you kept working at that with that level of design you could produce a turnover from it.
pete bubonic wrote: I personally think you're jumping the gun with this drive to make money from Dubstep yet.
I really hope, in a way, that it does not become a money spinner... because I think thats one of the reasons D&B went kack - as soon as people see it making money, they will jump the bandwagon to try and make a quick buck. But seeing as there's F all money in this scene, just vibes, people are just making music cos they feel it, because they love the sound ... I think thats one reason we're seeing so many quality tracks around at the moment, as ironic as it may be.
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plastician
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Fantastic argument raised here.....
My own personal reason is as follows....
Doing a Mix CD takes me 1 hour - in that mix I play tracks by 20 different producers. If I start selling this mix, these producers are morally entitled to a cut of my profits.
They and I all know it's good promotion, so they are cool with passing it out. But as soon as money is involved it becomes a whole different ball game.
I know it sounds stupid. But thats the way it is.
The Rinsessions CD pack which recently came out actually holds a mix of my own. Probably the best mix I have ever recorded and probably the last time you will ever hear a 4 deck mix from myself as it took so long to work out. The hours I spent on this mix was ridiculous, I put the time into it because I knew before I started mixing it that people were going to be charged to hear it, I worked out every mix, every pitch, every order of the whole CD and then spent about 2 weeks adding extra effects and samples to try and make a CD which people will listen to for a long time.
I think the point I'm trying to make is this. Our music is still in the transition period so we have to promote it as much as possible so that it is accessible to anyone who has simply read about it in the press. If somebody does a search on "dubstep" or "grime" in google - I would like to think that within a few clicks they will be able to download a decent mix for free, which they can then listen to and decide if they like it or not.
We can't really charge for mixes we've done in our bedroom studios as they don't have that appeal yet. Live recordings are a different kettle of fish because people who attended the night may like to buy the recording so they can re-live their night out, and people across the world might want to find out just what goes on at nights like FWD or DMZ.
I wish I could charge people to download every mix I've ever done - in the future maybe this will happen, and I will be paid royalties every time somebody's computer plays my mix cd. But really and truthfully I just want to be heard, and by offering a decent mix for free download, I'm spreading my sound to a wider audience with more potential bookings which in turn earn me more money.
Promotion Promotion Promotion, thats all it boils down to really.
My own personal reason is as follows....
Doing a Mix CD takes me 1 hour - in that mix I play tracks by 20 different producers. If I start selling this mix, these producers are morally entitled to a cut of my profits.
They and I all know it's good promotion, so they are cool with passing it out. But as soon as money is involved it becomes a whole different ball game.
I know it sounds stupid. But thats the way it is.
The Rinsessions CD pack which recently came out actually holds a mix of my own. Probably the best mix I have ever recorded and probably the last time you will ever hear a 4 deck mix from myself as it took so long to work out. The hours I spent on this mix was ridiculous, I put the time into it because I knew before I started mixing it that people were going to be charged to hear it, I worked out every mix, every pitch, every order of the whole CD and then spent about 2 weeks adding extra effects and samples to try and make a CD which people will listen to for a long time.
I think the point I'm trying to make is this. Our music is still in the transition period so we have to promote it as much as possible so that it is accessible to anyone who has simply read about it in the press. If somebody does a search on "dubstep" or "grime" in google - I would like to think that within a few clicks they will be able to download a decent mix for free, which they can then listen to and decide if they like it or not.
We can't really charge for mixes we've done in our bedroom studios as they don't have that appeal yet. Live recordings are a different kettle of fish because people who attended the night may like to buy the recording so they can re-live their night out, and people across the world might want to find out just what goes on at nights like FWD or DMZ.
I wish I could charge people to download every mix I've ever done - in the future maybe this will happen, and I will be paid royalties every time somebody's computer plays my mix cd. But really and truthfully I just want to be heard, and by offering a decent mix for free download, I'm spreading my sound to a wider audience with more potential bookings which in turn earn me more money.
Promotion Promotion Promotion, thats all it boils down to really.
heavy. good points made.Plasticman wrote:Fantastic argument raised here.....
My own personal reason is as follows....
Doing a Mix CD takes me 1 hour - in that mix I play tracks by 20 different producers. If I start selling this mix, these producers are morally entitled to a cut of my profits.
They and I all know it's good promotion, so they are cool with passing it out. But as soon as money is involved it becomes a whole different ball game.
I know it sounds stupid. But thats the way it is.
The Rinsessions CD pack which recently came out actually holds a mix of my own. Probably the best mix I have ever recorded and probably the last time you will ever hear a 4 deck mix from myself as it took so long to work out. The hours I spent on this mix was ridiculous, I put the time into it because I knew before I started mixing it that people were going to be charged to hear it, I worked out every mix, every pitch, every order of the whole CD and then spent about 2 weeks adding extra effects and samples to try and make a CD which people will listen to for a long time.
I think the point I'm trying to make is this. Our music is still in the transition period so we have to promote it as much as possible so that it is accessible to anyone who has simply read about it in the press. If somebody does a search on "dubstep" or "grime" in google - I would like to think that within a few clicks they will be able to download a decent mix for free, which they can then listen to and decide if they like it or not.
We can't really charge for mixes we've done in our bedroom studios as they don't have that appeal yet. Live recordings are a different kettle of fish because people who attended the night may like to buy the recording so they can re-live their night out, and people across the world might want to find out just what goes on at nights like FWD or DMZ.
I wish I could charge people to download every mix I've ever done - in the future maybe this will happen, and I will be paid royalties every time somebody's computer plays my mix cd. But really and truthfully I just want to be heard, and by offering a decent mix for free download, I'm spreading my sound to a wider audience with more potential bookings which in turn earn me more money.
Promotion Promotion Promotion, thats all it boils down to really.
quote plastiq;
The Rinsessions CD pack which recently came out actually holds a mix of my own. Probably the best mix I have ever recorded and probably the last time you will ever hear a 4 deck mix from myself as it took so long to work out. The hours I spent on this mix was ridiculous, I put the time into it because I knew before I started mixing it that people were going to be charged to hear it, I worked out every mix, every pitch, every order of the whole CD and then spent about 2 weeks adding extra effects and samples to try and make a CD which people will listen to for a long time.
BRAP!!
The Rinsessions CD pack which recently came out actually holds a mix of my own. Probably the best mix I have ever recorded and probably the last time you will ever hear a 4 deck mix from myself as it took so long to work out. The hours I spent on this mix was ridiculous, I put the time into it because I knew before I started mixing it that people were going to be charged to hear it, I worked out every mix, every pitch, every order of the whole CD and then spent about 2 weeks adding extra effects and samples to try and make a CD which people will listen to for a long time.
BRAP!!
http://www.myspace.com/ZOMBYproductions
http://www.myspace.com/HEAVYARTILLERYLABEL
'SPLIFF DUB' OUT SOON !!!!
http://www.myspace.com/HEAVYARTILLERYLABEL
'SPLIFF DUB' OUT SOON !!!!
i do make money from design and screen printing thats a total aside thingpete bubonic wrote:Selling hi rate encoded mixes won't work in Dubstep because of several reasons:
- Unless your name is Chef, Youngsta, Plasticman or Vex'd, chances are someone else out there will do a similar mix with similar tunes for free and probably it do it better than you.
- The turnover in dubstep seems to be fairly consistent, so unless your putting tunes in that simply aren't going to be released or will take mammoth amounts of time to get released, people will wait.
- The majority of people I have met involved with the scene or keen on it, aren't exactly loaded and as a result are very unlikely to pay for something that has no tangible physical substance, unlike a mix cd.
I personally think you're jumping the gun with this drive to make money from Dubstep yet. The biggest nights in the UK still stuggle to ram out, record sales seem to rarely clock a thousand shifted units and to my own personal opinion is that in it's current state, Dubstep is benefitting somewhat from not having a good cash flow. Don't get me wrong, I want people to get their dues, but there's soo much good music being produced, with no expectation of getting anything back, it seems the music is the first priority, the innovation, pushing something new, rather making a track to put food on the table. I'm sure it will change and become more popular, but then it's in my mind even less likely to move towards selling hi rate mp3 mixes, because their will be more and more nameless lowlevel chumps like me vying for attention and to cut our own niche out and willing to do it for free.
If you are looking to make cash out of this thing Dubmugga, I would stick to your graphic design and tshirt printing, for instance, the Boxcutter design with the level meters and scalpel was good, I'm sure if you kept working at that with that level of design you could produce a turnover from it.
chances are no one has the tunes chef, youngsta, plastic or vexd has so a mix by them would sell as the tunes would be exclusive and they could probabaly just mix the ones that will never see any sort of release anyway but are good enough
my thoughts on this subject are just that looking to promote discussion and offer an opinion on how to generate more income for artists. It might seem like a drive to make money but if you knew how little value i place on it other than as a means to an end people wouldn't be all up in my ass with petty little snide comments
I know there's not much money in it, I got a mate who's licensed big trax to breakz label and got dicked for it so of course with a smaller scene there would be less dosh going around. I licensed a trak to cafe del mar CD worth more than his 4 releases on a top UK label
the money is in gaming and movie soundtrax which is what we'll be aiming for this year in the mean time we're just gonna keep putting stuff out there and hold down our end of the music which we feel best fits what we are doing and that is dubstep without all the cultural or geographical references
we have given away lots of tunes and will probably continue to do so as we're making shitloads of them
music is always our second priority behind our families but as dedicated musicians/artists we need to look at all available options to justify the time and money we spend on our obsession
I tell you what i'm hearing lately and that is a second tier of producers coming through and straight ripping the original sounds while not really adding much value or their own personal influence yeah i even hear some of our stuff sifting through the mix
if we didn't put stuff out there for public consumption and only circulated it to labels and bigboy DJ's there is a very good chance we would just straight get ripped because of how we interpret the sounds we heard back in the day and the difference of our sound from having developed in isolation and contemporaneously
i know this sort of shit goes on cos it's not the first time it's happened to us
I believe our slippin RMX may be the first vocal dubstep tune and we did that in late 2001 i think ???
c/- DEPT of HELL SCIENCE
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pete_bubonic
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Although I donÂ’t want to taint this thread with another dubmugga argument, the only reason people snipe shots at you is because you present yourself in such a big fish in small pond way. I appreciate you gotta pimp yourself, fuck I do that at every available opportunity and in no way am I disagreeing itÂ’s going to be harder for you and easier for me because of our geographies. But thereÂ’s simply no need to be as aggressive as you are, you obviously are capable of doing good things, shown by Gutter showcasing some Hell Science tunes and by some good dubstep design work you have put on here, but you just need to check the ego at the door.
I however agree, with yourself and Elemental to an extent, I want artists to get whatÂ’s theirs. I want Plasticman to sell shit loads of the FWD>> mix and the Rinse Sessions mixes, not because I want him to earn a living off the music, because the number of artists who do that and still put the music first can be counted off on a single hand, but because he deserves it and those mixes need to get out to as many people as possible.
I appreciate that you, dubmugga dedicate bare time to the cause, but I would probably say we all do. I live, breathe and eat music 24/7, split up from a girlfriend and lost contact with friends because of it. I play out with some regularity and get good feedback on the majority of my tunes, but to this day I havenÂ’t made a penny from dubstep and to be quite honest, never expect to. It doesnÂ’t stop me from giving a cd to every producer or dj or listener that I see and meet, but it doesnÂ’t mean I brag about how good I am or anything stupid.
With regards to the soundtracking bit, this is really the only time I made money from music, is putting music to adverts. Not only is it piss easy but advertising companies will literally throw cash at you for 20 second pieces. Most I got paid, ratio wise, was 750 quid for about 3 seconds of beats. Woohoo!
I however agree, with yourself and Elemental to an extent, I want artists to get whatÂ’s theirs. I want Plasticman to sell shit loads of the FWD>> mix and the Rinse Sessions mixes, not because I want him to earn a living off the music, because the number of artists who do that and still put the music first can be counted off on a single hand, but because he deserves it and those mixes need to get out to as many people as possible.
I appreciate that you, dubmugga dedicate bare time to the cause, but I would probably say we all do. I live, breathe and eat music 24/7, split up from a girlfriend and lost contact with friends because of it. I play out with some regularity and get good feedback on the majority of my tunes, but to this day I havenÂ’t made a penny from dubstep and to be quite honest, never expect to. It doesnÂ’t stop me from giving a cd to every producer or dj or listener that I see and meet, but it doesnÂ’t mean I brag about how good I am or anything stupid.
With regards to the soundtracking bit, this is really the only time I made money from music, is putting music to adverts. Not only is it piss easy but advertising companies will literally throw cash at you for 20 second pieces. Most I got paid, ratio wise, was 750 quid for about 3 seconds of beats. Woohoo!
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