Harmonic And Melodic Minors

[Mad_EP]

It's still basic theory...

..doesn't mean it is your fault your teachers left shit out, but it STILL is basic theory.

So if you are fluent in the Circle of Fifths (ie- without blinking, let alone googling, you can tell me what major key has 5 flats of which minor key has 6 sharps.... that shit should be secondary nature)..

Then I will will build off that knowledge and give you the basics...

Natural minor key (you already know)

Melodic minor key: Natural minor- till the 6th which is raised & the 7th which is raised... however, both are lowered to the natural minor state upon descent. Melodic minor is tricky cos it is one set of notes going up, but another going down.

Harmonic minor is almost the same as natural minor... except a raised 7th.


I already explained these concepts, which is why I don't think you have a basic grasp on theory. It is nothing to be ashamed of... but just be honest, so that those you ask for help can better assist you...

[wirez]

It's still basic theory...

..doesn't mean it is your fault your teachers left shit out, but it STILL is basic theory.

So if you are fluent in the Circle of Fifths (ie- without blinking, let alone googling, you can tell me what major key has 5 flats of which minor key has 6 sharps.... that shit should be secondary nature)..

Then I will will build off that knowledge and give you the basics...

Natural minor key (you already know)

Melodic minor key: Natural minor- till the 6th which is raised & the 7th which is raised... however, both are lowered to the natural minor state upon descent. Melodic minor is tricky cos it is one set of notes going up, but another going down.

Harmonic minor is almost the same as natural minor... except a raised 7th.


I already explained these concepts, which is why I don't think you have a basic grasp on theory. It is nothing to be ashamed of... but just be honest, so that those you ask for help can better assist you...

Sorry mate, don't mean to take it off context but if that's still basic theory, what's included in advanced theory?

[Sharmaji]

(TeReKeTe- you were a bit off on your definitions.. I think you switched melodic & harmonic around)

goddamnit you're right. harmonic vs. melodic, cats and dogs, living together:: MASS HYSTERIA.

regardless, bigz for clearing it up.

mate i'd love it if you'd take the time to go in-depth w/ your thoughts/views on harmony. Alot of heads want to know.

intermediate theory starts at the fifth-of-fifth (aka the V of V) and moves along to there. jazz theory bypasses intermediate theory and goes straight to some full-on, augmented/diminished shizz.

the V of the V (ie, going to Dmaj from C) is an extremely cool, extremely canonical, and surprisingly deep idea.

and has very little to do w/ dubstep in general. however-- musicz is musicz!

[Mad_EP]

Cool- I will work on that... got a bunch of stuff on the plate at the minute, but I think it would be a good project.

As you said- lots of heads want to know, plus it gives me a chance to dust off the cobwebs in my brain (cos it's been a while since I thought about that stuff in depth).

[james fox]

Don't ask! I'm afraid he will tell us.

[serox]

tbh it's gonna take practice, and youre gonna have to think about it.

natural minor has a flatted 3rd and a flatted 7th.

melodic minor has a flatted 3rd and a natural 7th.

harmonic minor has a flatted 3rd, augmented 6th and a natural 7th.

best thing to do would be to practice them, with both hands, in A minor.

Does it matter that I have a clue what you are on about?

[magma]

Melodic minor is tricky cos it is one set of notes going up, but another going down.

What about if you're doing counterpoint? Prolly using that word wrong, but what if you have two contrasting lines that are moving in opposite directions?

Then you end up with a harmonic clash. There's actually a nice, friendly phrase for it, but I've forgotten what it is... it's used quite a bit in music from around the 1600s - there's a pretty famous part of the Coventry Carol where one group of singers is ascending and the other is descending... you get this mad dischord for one note before it all starts to resolve again.

Use with sparingly and with care... but don't dismiss the idea....

[wirez]

tbh it's gonna take practice, and youre gonna have to think about it.

natural minor has a flatted 3rd and a flatted 7th.

melodic minor has a flatted 3rd and a natural 7th.

harmonic minor has a flatted 3rd, augmented 6th and a natural 7th.

best thing to do would be to practice them, with both hands, in A minor.

Does it matter that I have a clue what you are on about?

Thats what I mean - Im sure sat at a piano and playing the chords would make sense but abstracted into text my brain shuts down.

I get the same thing at work when I have to deal with code scripts - its all gobbledeegook until someone shows you where the 'make it good' button is.

Still no hurry - its a journey not a race and practise and patience should reap its own rewards!

now where do I find them ...

Ok, anybody who has time...
I'd like a written version of the lessons, and these people would like video

[wirez]

(TeReKeTe- you were a bit off on your definitions.. I think you switched melodic & harmonic around)

goddamnit you're right. harmonic vs. melodic, cats and dogs, living together:: MASS HYSTERIA.

regardless, bigz for clearing it up.

mate i'd love it if you'd take the time to go in-depth w/ your thoughts/views on harmony. Alot of heads want to know.

intermediate theory starts at the fifth-of-fifth (aka the V of V) and moves along to there. jazz theory bypasses intermediate theory and goes straight to some full-on, augmented/diminished shizz.

the V of the V (ie, going to Dmaj from C) is an extremely cool, extremely canonical, and surprisingly deep idea.

and has very little to do w/ dubstep in general. however-- musicz is musicz!

Sounds like the stuff I'm just getting into learning about... More stuff on these would be wicked

[wirez]

Do you lose anything by writing everything in the key of C? The argument being that the dj is going to be pitching you up or down anywayz?

You lose originality, and a whole lot of black keys

But in honesty, I've read many a time that the majority of dance music is written in C... So unless you want to be a mindless Hardcore producer who would never upgrade from FL because 'you have no reason to', I'd recommend using all scales in your compositions... This way you look more intelligent than chavs with FL who are scared to learn about the black keys so just avoid them all the time

[wirez]

Do you lose anything by writing everything in the key of C? The argument being that the dj is going to be pitching you up or down anywayz?

You lose originality, and a whole lot of black keys

But in honesty, I've read many a time that the majority of dance music is written in C... So unless you want to be a mindless Hardcore producer who would never upgrade from FL because 'you have no reason to', I'd recommend using all scales in your compositions... This way you look more intelligent than chavs with FL who are scared to learn about the black keys so just avoid them all the time

Oh, and not everybody makes Dubstep to be played in clubs

[caeraphym]

Why's everyone always sniping at FL, especially some poor 'tard who don't know his scales ffs

[Mad_EP]

Since there seems to be in a decent amount of interest (and since i have big TeReKeTe's blessing), I definitely will write up some theory lessons...

..It'll take me at least a week or so, cos I am finishing up some projects- coincidentally enough, my "Twenty-four Breakbeats" mpfree release on Acroplane. This project was inspired by Bach's Well-Tempered Klavier & Shostakovich's 24 Preludes & Fugues... all collections of pieces written in every major & minor key (ie- 24). Seems to be pertinent timing.. I'll definitely let peeps know when it is available for free download (probably about a week)..


Anyway- my ideas for the first few Theory Lessons, is to cover the basics so we have a foundation to build from. I was thinking:
- Intervals
- the Circle of Fifths
- Scales (all major & minor)
- Chords (major, minor, diminished, augmented, dominant 7)
- Basic Chordal Progressions (Tonic, Dominant, Sub-Dominant)
- Modes


From there, we can dive into deeper waters... What do people think? Anything obvious I am missing out?

[Mad_EP]

Sorry mate, don't mean to take it off context but if that's still basic theory, what's included in advanced theory?

Hey- first of all... sorry if I came across a bit curt yesterday. It was the end of a frustrating day. I didn't mean to be rude, but re-reading, it could have come across as such.

Before we dive into that bowl of jelly, I think its best to get solid on the basics... If you look at the list I provided in the post above, that is all what I consider to be basic theory. It is a lot- and to be honest, if you have a thorough grasp on all of it, you can do & understand A LOT. Trust me.

But to answer your question... once we've spent some time covering those bases, we can go into more chord progressions, music reading (treble & bass clefs - no real need going into alto & tenor clefs), rhythmic notation & voice leading (4 part harmony). There's lots more, but we'll see what the demand is beyond that...