CONDONING PIRACY?

DFRNT · Post by **DFRNT** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:49 am

hurlingdervish wrote: no one makes bank from digital releases. at the end of the day digital releases only gain chump change, which i think is fair because it took no extra cost outside of the usual mastering and advertising. all they needed was 10 mb of space. where as if they want to get records printed they are actually shelling out the money themselves.

It's true that there's not much cash to be made digitally - but considering that to be "fair" is ridiculous.

Mastering and advertising is one thing, but consider all the time and effort put in to distribution and artwork, as well as any special promotion requiring cash output. And it's hardly just a case of having a spare 10mb to stick some tunes up.

I see your point on digital selling less - but make that your point. Don't try and tell all those digital labels who are working extremely hard to bring you good tracks - that all they are making is "chump change" - I personally find that insulting.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:25 pm

Alex-C wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote: no one makes bank from digital releases. at the end of the day digital releases only gain chump change, which i think is fair because it took no extra cost outside of the usual mastering and advertising. all they needed was 10 mb of space. where as if they want to get records printed they are actually shelling out the money themselves.
It's true that there's not much cash to be made digitally - but considering that to be "fair" is ridiculous.

Mastering and advertising is one thing, but consider all the time and effort put in to distribution and artwork, as well as any special promotion requiring cash output. And it's hardly just a case of having a spare 10mb to stick some tunes up.

I see your point on digital selling less - but make that your point. Don't try and tell all those digital labels who are working extremely hard to bring you good tracks - that all they are making is "chump change" - I personally find that insulting.

i said that digital release making less money than physical ones is fair, not giving them away.

and if you read on i said that he should take down the site because its up to the producer and label.

find it insulting all you want its the truth, digital releases dont make money, shows do

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:33 pm

ill never like the idea of paying for something that can disappear with a computer crash , if there is art involved i take the book out of the cd or take the whole record and put it on the wall.
you cant do that with mp3s

i think all physical releases should come with a download code of some sort for an mp3 backup

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:51 pm

this is the kind of attitude thats come out of the napster/ipod generation. this contempt. laziness. this entitlement thing. that, because the internet is free and things that float around on there are just 1's and 0's and aren't really "real", it means that i'm entitled to them because my mouse let me click download.

makes me sick. pay for quality. pay for hardwork. support creativity. don't be a cultural vampire just because you have access to the net.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:24 pm

seckle wrote:this is the kind of attitude thats come out of the napster/ipod generation. this contempt. laziness. this entitlement thing. that, because the internet is free and things that float around on there are just 1's and 0's and aren't really "real", it means that i'm entitled to them because my mouse let me click download.

makes me sick. pay for quality. pay for hardwork. support creativity. don't be a cultural vampire just because you have access to the net.

wouldnt you rather have a cd or record than 1's or 0's? anybody can get songs on itunes, not everyone can get records distributed, thats what separated the men from the boys years ago and now because of "the napster generation" that level of professionalism is dying out. there are more than two sides to everything...

its not either "you are supporting the artist" or "you are leeching off them"

thats the kind of shit that the RIAA spews out

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:30 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:
seckle wrote:this is the kind of attitude thats come out of the napster/ipod generation. this contempt. laziness. this entitlement thing. that, because the internet is free and things that float around on there are just 1's and 0's and aren't really "real", it means that i'm entitled to them because my mouse let me click download.

makes me sick. pay for quality. pay for hardwork. support creativity. don't be a cultural vampire just because you have access to the net.
wouldnt you rather have a cd or record than 1's or 0's? anybody can get songs on itunes, not everyone can get records distributed, thats what separated the men from the boys years ago and now because of "the napster generation" that level of professionalism is dying out. there are more than two sides to everything...

its not either "you are supporting the artist" or "you are leeching off them"

thats the kind of shit that the RIAA spews out

so by not paying for music you download, who are you supporting? how are you contributing to keeping creativity alive?

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:42 pm

seckle wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:
seckle wrote:this is the kind of attitude thats come out of the napster/ipod generation. this contempt. laziness. this entitlement thing. that, because the internet is free and things that float around on there are just 1's and 0's and aren't really "real", it means that i'm entitled to them because my mouse let me click download.

makes me sick. pay for quality. pay for hardwork. support creativity. don't be a cultural vampire just because you have access to the net.
wouldnt you rather have a cd or record than 1's or 0's? anybody can get songs on itunes, not everyone can get records distributed, thats what separated the men from the boys years ago and now because of "the napster generation" that level of professionalism is dying out. there are more than two sides to everything...

its not either "you are supporting the artist" or "you are leeching off them"

thats the kind of shit that the RIAA spews out
so by not paying for music you download, who are you supporting? how are you contributing to keeping creativity alive?

by spreading the word of mouth and showing people music so that when the show comes around the audience has increased tenfold, and that more than makes up for how many songs people download.

theres an amon tobin interview out there saying how 90 percent of the people at his shows would not have been there if not for piracy. it gets the word out faster than ANY other advertising

shows are where the money is made. not digital downloads. buy the record at a show so 100 percent of the profit goes to the artist.

i think that all artists should have at least a 128 kps mp3 for free. there is so much absolute shit music out there in such high quantities that it is not worth taking shots in the dark with buying music. if i like the artist i buy it. but how would i even get to know them if i cant even test it on actually good speakers in my car or stereo system? flash players with laptop speakers are no way to get to know artists

anywho i think this problem is blowed way out of proportion when it comes to dubstep. if you arent selling records or mp3s blame it on your skills in producing and djing not "the napster generation"

boomnoise · Post by **boomnoise** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:12 pm

miig · Post by **miig** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:09 pm

I think the point has been missed here? Whether digital releases make money or not this guy is giving away hundreds of tracks which are being sold.

the point of this thread was so that something could be done to stop this - not to discuss the topic of piracy.

i'm sorry if this wasn't clear in the first post.

seckle · Post by **seckle** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:22 pm

hurlingdervish wrote:
seckle wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:
seckle wrote:this is the kind of attitude thats come out of the napster/ipod generation. this contempt. laziness. this entitlement thing. that, because the internet is free and things that float around on there are just 1's and 0's and aren't really "real", it means that i'm entitled to them because my mouse let me click download.

makes me sick. pay for quality. pay for hardwork. support creativity. don't be a cultural vampire just because you have access to the net.
wouldnt you rather have a cd or record than 1's or 0's? anybody can get songs on itunes, not everyone can get records distributed, thats what separated the men from the boys years ago and now because of "the napster generation" that level of professionalism is dying out. there are more than two sides to everything...

its not either "you are supporting the artist" or "you are leeching off them"

thats the kind of shit that the RIAA spews out
so by not paying for music you download, who are you supporting? how are you contributing to keeping creativity alive?
by spreading the word of mouth and showing people music so that when the show comes around the audience has increased tenfold, and that more than makes up for how many songs people download.

theres an amon tobin interview out there saying how 90 percent of the people at his shows would not have been there if not for piracy. it gets the word out faster than ANY other advertising

shows are where the money is made. not digital downloads. buy the record at a show so 100 percent of the profit goes to the artist.

i think that all artists should have at least a 128 kps mp3 for free. there is so much absolute shit music out there in such high quantities that it is not worth taking shots in the dark with buying music. if i like the artist i buy it. but how would i even get to know them if i cant even test it on actually good speakers in my car or stereo system? flash players with laptop speakers are no way to get to know artists

anywho i think this problem is blowed way out of proportion when it comes to dubstep. if you arent selling records or mp3s blame it on your skills in producing and djing not "the napster generation"

this is the basic entitlement issue spelled out via justifications. Did you ask permission from labels,producers before deciding to in effect distribute their music? you're not a music distributor! Who gives you the right? Oh yeah, you dont need to consider, rights because you feel entitled to things by virtue of access to them. Its fucking jokes all around with this sort of thing. Soon, people will feel entitled to just about fucking anything.

kwality · Post by **kwality** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:56 pm

I think the Amon Tobin quote is a little out of context, because you're talking about someone who has already benefitted from a major(ish) label and all the perks that come from it (promo, distro, radio pluggers etc). In fact an interview with him in FM mag a little while ago also spoke of him setting up his studio from the advance he got on his first/second record. That ain't happening if his music is for free, whether he's doing dozens of shows or not.

People shouldn't give away other people music without consent. That's really not a grey area. You can say that it helps the artist but that's debatable, and let's face it, is only a justification for people to do the wrong thing. I don't blame people who pilfer stuff, but bloggers who give away stuff for free while selling ads on their blogs are really not helping anyone other than themselves.

Keep your eyes peeled for lowercase - we'll be rewarding people who support the music, rather than worrying about the toys who steal it.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:09 pm

i said in a previous post

THIS GUY SHOULD BE SHUT DOWN AS FREE DISTRIBUTION SHOULD BE UP TO THE PRODUCER AND LABEL. go back now and read that post.

i then went on to prove that free distribution CAN be beneficial to the artist. i never said I was giving out free mp3's.

free music is beneficial to ANY musicians popularity. end of story. even if they dont give out all their tracks they should at least put out a couple of unmastered or lower bit rate quality for people to enjoy where they want to enjoy it.

no one is going to buy a no names mp3 without hearing it in the club or on a decent soundsystem. most people dont have decent speakers hooked up to their computer/laptop to get the full vibe of a track from a flash player.

did i say go and download everything you can? no. did i say that this guy is right in what hes doing? no. stop putting words in my mouth

jason burns · Post by **jason burns** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:14 pm

it is what it is. this is what happens now. to everyone. shit i'm not even a well known producer and my first 2 releases were on every torrent site in like a day. getting mad about it is pointless. if you disagree you are in denial.

all this "should be" and "supposed to be" and "in an ideal world bla bla bla." while we're at it lets end all pain, poverty, and death in the world.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:25 pm

jason burns wrote:it is what it is. this is what happens now. to everyone. shit i'm not even a well known producer and my first 2 releases were on every torrent site in like a day. getting mad about it is pointless. if you disagree you are in denial.

all this "should be" and "supposed to be" and "in an ideal world bla bla bla." while we're at it lets end all pain, poverty, and death in the world.

while we are at it why not stop making music?

after all whats the point of having fun if someone else tries to steal your fun?

jason burns · Post by **jason burns** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:31 am

hurlingdervish wrote:
jason burns wrote:it is what it is. this is what happens now. to everyone. shit i'm not even a well known producer and my first 2 releases were on every torrent site in like a day. getting mad about it is pointless. if you disagree you are in denial.

all this "should be" and "supposed to be" and "in an ideal world bla bla bla." while we're at it lets end all pain, poverty, and death in the world.
while we are at it why not stop making music?
after all whats the point of having fun if someone else tries to steal your fun?

you've got money confused with fun man. see thats the real value of music. and making music. it's fun. noone CAN steal your fun. and noone can steal the props you get for making a big tune. if your making music for any other reason than having fun and getting respect than you don't deserve a cent anyway. so faaack off.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:48 am

jason burns wrote:
hurlingdervish wrote:
jason burns wrote:it is what it is. this is what happens now. to everyone. shit i'm not even a well known producer and my first 2 releases were on every torrent site in like a day. getting mad about it is pointless. if you disagree you are in denial.

all this "should be" and "supposed to be" and "in an ideal world bla bla bla." while we're at it lets end all pain, poverty, and death in the world.
while we are at it why not stop making music?
after all whats the point of having fun if someone else tries to steal your fun?
you've got money confused with fun man. see thats the real value of music. and making music. it's fun. noone CAN steal your fun. and noone can steal the props you get for making a big tune. if your making music for any other reason than having fun and getting respect than you don't deserve a cent anyway. so faaack off.

what man? i totally agree with you thats why i responded.

"stealing your fun" i was being sarcastic aha

having fun is the ONLY reason i make music

abZ · Post by **abZ** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:56 am

I don't really see what is so wrong about making music for money. Any other type of art, people expect to be paid. Music it's a "no no" all of a sudden. Didn't seem to be a no no before file sharing but ok. So now not only am I making no money from production but I am running a label and managing artists for no money. Oh but I guess the money is in live shows. Gas money and a bar tab. I guess I just suck.

hectikx · Post by **hectikx** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:00 am

boogs wrote:in an ideal world piracy wouldn't make a big difference to record sales. people actually once used to care more about music and bought the records they liked. Piracy has always been around and tape trading was even a supported culture/movement in the underground. Still bands sold their releases (the tape trading scene actually helped this). Nowadays people sit in front of their computer and download everything, rip everything. That's my main gripe with the whole music scene and it's "listeners", nobody cares about music anymore, it became totally disposable to them. mp3's and everything are very convenient but were people happy with a tape dub of an album they totally dug? fuck all the bloggers and message boards leeching music. I simply can't understand why it is so hard to put well known piracy message boards and torrent sites out of business even if their servers were located on some remote pacific island?

music isn't a commodity to be bought and sold. i care a fuck load about music, but i can barely afford to survive let alone shell out over the odds on new music every week. ive got a 75gb music library and aint payed a penny, apart from all the music thats made in the local scene. but to say i dont love music as much as the next man is bullshit.

theres more to music than the fucking money, theres more to life than money. music can evolve without the need for it be a commodity.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:03 am

abZ wrote:I don't really see what is so wrong about making music for money. Any other type of art, people expect to be paid. Music it's a "no no" all of a sudden. Didn't seem to be a no no before file sharing but ok. So now not only am I making no money from production but I am running a label and managing artists for no money. Oh but I guess the money is in live shows. Gas money and a bar tab. I guess I just suck.

theres a difference between doing what you love and getting paid for it and making it just for the money. pop punk bands especially in the 90s started popping up and the members really didnt care about it much except for the money and the tail. age old story with many genres before that

you are obviously doing it for the love and deserve money for it.

hurlingdervish · Post by **hurlingdervish** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:06 am

music needs to be seen as an experience not a product.

thats why we have dj's

thats why we need live electronic music popping up

thats why people are weary to buy records. because it has become a product in the eyes of many.

CONDONING PIRACY?

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