Cleese: 'London is no longer an English city'

[deadly_habit]

[noam]

oh Cleese... i take back everything i ever said against you

<3 <3 <3

[youthful_implants]

Cleese is so on the money. Shame Obama turned out to be another spineless, lying puppet.

On the subject of immigration in the UK and by proxy London, it's a sensitive issue. I grew up in Clapton, Hackney when my mum moved there after divorcing my dad when I was 6 in 1982.

As a posh, inquisitive white kid from the country who went to private school - Hackney posed some unique challenges. One big question was "how do I fit in?" I was surrounded by black families and felt like I was in another country.

Fast forward 29 years and I wouldn't change my upbringing for anything. I learned a lot and learned fast growing up in such a culturally diverse place. I had to be street smart. I embraced all the culture that came with that, the music, the parties, the clothing, everything. I take huge pride in it.

Nowadays colour is so much less of an issue in London than it was even when I first moved there. Racism is effectively non existent AFAIK. Not to say that there aren't other issues of segregation, poverty and education.

Now London is a dumping ground for all of Europe. Every man and his dog has moved there to cash in on the UK economy; for a better life. Immigration is different now to how it was in the 20s and then 50s when so many of the Indian, Bengali, Pakistani and Afro Carribean families first settled. London was post war both times and about to undergo never before seen periods of growth and expansion. There were jobs for everyone, no matter where you came from. Bus Drivers, Tube Drivers, Street sweepers whatever. You could make a tidy living doing something honourable like that.

These days its not like that. There aren't the jobs, there is huge over-saturation of skilled people prepared to do even unskilled work just to survive. The competition is ridiculous. Its understandable that British people, who are educated, feel a little short changed that they can't even get a job doing something unskilled when they have degrees, diplomas etc. They are victims of capitalism gone mad. The bubble has burst IMO. The riots were a clear sign that the streets of London are not owned by anyone except the disenfranchised youth and the corporations. If I was 14, still living in Hackney, i would have rioted too and that was on the back of the Thatcher government when Hackney council was bankrupt and nothing worked...

Its definitely not the same city as it was then, but I dont see much improvement either. Just more over-crowding, less opportunity and nothing from the government to give people a sense of purpose, pride or future.

ps. the people in this thread hysterically crying racism on this issue come across as such ignorant, small minded twats. immigration and racism are two completely seperate problems and not to be confused. Its ok to admit feeling threatened by things you don't understand. It doesn't make you racist.

[Mr Hyde]

I'm not racist but I am Cornish

that's a bit of an oxymoron....goes for scottish and welsh too! (and I guess me too with my generalising)

[kay]

no one in this thread has mentioned Chinese immigrants: one of the most culturally different, socially isolated groups we have in this country - but in the media, they are not touched on, and haven't been touched on for many years. Despite that a massive amount of illegal chinese immigrants exist in this country that dont speak the language or integrate AT ALL; iknow this because i work with them. BUT... they have built a community which WE can explore irrespective of how they explore ours. The idea that they have to come here and become english or anglicised is perfectly fine, but there is nothing stopping us becoming accomodated with, and exploring their communities and their lives... after all they're in our country. What we have gleaned from that over many, many decades is a strong cultural bond with the chinese community, that yes has these negative aspects of isolation, language barriers, culture-clashes...but also gives us many advantages - chinese new year celebrations, the institution of chinese restaurants and cooking, chinese supermarkets and businesses...

Oriental or far eastern culture/mentality is significantly different from that of immigrants from other regions of the world. They generally prefer a low-profile approach to living (unless they're amongst the ultra rich). Most of them are also either non-religious or practise religions which require a high degree of visibility. For example, I know there are Buddhist temples around, but I can't say I've ever noticed one in the last 15 years. There aren't any proscribed clothings, accessories or customs that would make the typical oriental stand out from amongst your average crowd of white people (apart of course from facial features and skin colour). There aren't any odd cultural practices such as arranged marriages to grab the headlines. And ultimately, culturally-wise, the Chinese in general are here for money. Bad publicity is bad for business. So shady dealings are kept on the down low as much as possible. It doesn't mean that there aren't things going on, but it's just kept more well hidden most of the time. If I recall correctly, there was an obvious and well-known triad problem in London back in the late 90s.

In short, the Chinese in the UK can become as racially segregated as any other race but because their backgrounds are more....vanilla...than most, they seem to fit in more. Or at least they don't tend to grab the limelight in a negative way as often. An almost culture-wide addiction to gambling is generally not viewed as being any more concerning than addiction to smoking and alcohol.

[noam]

no one in this thread has mentioned Chinese immigrants: one of the most culturally different, socially isolated groups we have in this country - but in the media, they are not touched on, and haven't been touched on for many years. Despite that a massive amount of illegal chinese immigrants exist in this country that dont speak the language or integrate AT ALL; iknow this because i work with them. BUT... they have built a community which WE can explore irrespective of how they explore ours. The idea that they have to come here and become english or anglicised is perfectly fine, but there is nothing stopping us becoming accomodated with, and exploring their communities and their lives... after all they're in our country. What we have gleaned from that over many, many decades is a strong cultural bond with the chinese community, that yes has these negative aspects of isolation, language barriers, culture-clashes...but also gives us many advantages - chinese new year celebrations, the institution of chinese restaurants and cooking, chinese supermarkets and businesses...

Oriental or far eastern culture/mentality is significantly different from that of immigrants from other regions of the world. They generally prefer a low-profile approach to living (unless they're amongst the ultra rich). Most of them are also either non-religious or practise religions which require a high degree of visibility. For example, I know there are Buddhist temples around, but I can't say I've ever noticed one in the last 15 years. There aren't any proscribed clothings, accessories or customs that would make the typical oriental stand out from amongst your average crowd of white people (apart of course from facial features and skin colour). There aren't any odd cultural practices such as arranged marriages to grab the headlines. And ultimately, culturally-wise, the Chinese in general are here for money. Bad publicity is bad for business. So shady dealings are kept on the down low as much as possible. It doesn't mean that there aren't things going on, but it's just kept more well hidden most of the time. If I recall correctly, there was an obvious and well-known triad problem in London back in the late 90s.

In short, the Chinese in the UK can become as racially segregated as any other race but because their backgrounds are more....vanilla...than most, they seem to fit in more. Or at least they don't tend to grab the limelight in a negative way as often. An almost culture-wide addiction to gambling is generally not viewed as being any more concerning than addiction to smoking and alcohol.

essentially yea!

same with the recent influx of Mongolians who started coming over about the same time as the E. Europeans

Mongolians are allowed over and given visa's almost without question

there are seemingly some groups of immigrants who are immune to public outrage

[Pistonsbeneath]

Cleese is so on the money. Shame Obama turned out to be another spineless, lying puppet.

On the subject of immigration in the UK and by proxy London, it's a sensitive issue. I grew up in Clapton, Hackney when my mum moved there after divorcing my dad when I was 6 in 1982.

As a posh, inquisitive white kid from the country who went to private school - Hackney posed some unique challenges. One big question was "how do I fit in?" I was surrounded by black families and felt like I was in another country.

Fast forward 29 years and I wouldn't change my upbringing for anything. I learned a lot and learned fast growing up in such a culturally diverse place. I had to be street smart. I embraced all the culture that came with that, the music, the parties, the clothing, everything. I take huge pride in it.

Nowadays colour is so much less of an issue in London than it was even when I first moved there. Racism is effectively non existent AFAIK. Not to say that there aren't other issues of segregation, poverty and education.

Now London is a dumping ground for all of Europe. Every man and his dog has moved there to cash in on the UK economy; for a better life. Immigration is different now to how it was in the 20s and then 50s when so many of the Indian, Bengali, Pakistani and Afro Carribean families first settled. London was post war both times and about to undergo never before seen periods of growth and expansion. There were jobs for everyone, no matter where you came from. Bus Drivers, Tube Drivers, Street sweepers whatever. You could make a tidy living doing something honourable like that.

These days its not like that. There aren't the jobs, there is huge over-saturation of skilled people prepared to do even unskilled work just to survive. The competition is ridiculous. Its understandable that British people, who are educated, feel a little short changed that they can't even get a job doing something unskilled when they have degrees, diplomas etc. They are victims of capitalism gone mad. The bubble has burst IMO. The riots were a clear sign that the streets of London are not owned by anyone except the disenfranchised youth and the corporations. If I was 14, still living in Hackney, i would have rioted too and that was on the back of the Thatcher government when Hackney council was bankrupt and nothing worked...

Its definitely not the same city as it was then, but I dont see much improvement either. Just more over-crowding, less opportunity and nothing from the government to give people a sense of purpose, pride or future.

ps. the people in this thread hysterically crying racism on this issue come across as such ignorant, small minded twats. immigration and racism are two completely seperate problems and not to be confused. Its ok to admit feeling threatened by things you don't understand. It doesn't make you racist.

good story and thanks for sharing

how old are you if you dont mind me asking?

[Electric_Head]

6 in 1982

how old are you if you dont mind me asking?

[therapist]

6 in 1982

how old are you if you dont mind me asking?

Lol.

[youthful_implants]

interesting piece by Ed West for the Telegraph on the same subject: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwes ... -he-right/

[soul dead]

this is exactly how izan germany started.

[noam]

interesting piece by Ed West for the Telegraph on the same subject: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwes ... -he-right/

half crap half ok-ish column material

'could the life of brian even be made today? i doubt it' - LOL

'In fact, one of the strange things about immigration and enforced diversity is that it destroys the very things that liberals love about this country – its egalitarianism, its secularism (including the ability to laugh about religion), an unarmed police, a public willingness to pool resources to pay for publicly owned libraries, arts services, education and health care.' - what planet is this guy living on??

[soul dead]

I want to laugh at religion anyway, not about it.

[noam]

I want to laugh at religion anyway, not about it.

GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM SECULARIST SCUM!!

[soul dead]

with all the funny words and clothes you could just film some muslims for a day and edit it into a new monty python film.

[noam]

with all the funny words and clothes you could just film some muslims for a day and edit it into a new monty python film.

[magma]

'could the life of brian even be made today? i doubt it' - LOL

That is actually fucking mental. We live in a society where you can freely put adverts on buses saying God probably doesn't exist and flippantly telling people to "Stop worrying and get on with your life"... the only reason Life of Brian wouldn't be made today is because everyone's seen it and, largely as a result, the church isn't such a necessary target anymore.

Religious extremists are still a target though, so we quite happily made fun of them ruthlessly in films like Four Lions. At the time of Life of Brian, the targets were likely to boycott the film or ask their local cinema not to play it... I wonder what the "worst case scenario" was that Chris Morris thought about when writing that!

It's amazing what people get paid to write.

[soul dead]

with all the funny words and clothes you could just film some muslims for a day and edit it into a new monty python film.

it's an insult to compare this film to monty python (one of the most overrated uk shows)

[noam]

with all the funny words and clothes you could just film some muslims for a day and edit it into a new monty python film.

it's an insult to compare this film to monty python (one of the most overrated uk shows)

i doubt chris morris or charlie brooker would think it much of an insult

[soul dead]

yh they probably love monty python that's cool it's not from my era.